Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[ladongas]

I did find a source of the man in the pub comment, although I don't believe I ever read the book. I googled Wallis and "slept with the Queen" and got a view of several pages of the book:

Sex with Kings: 500 Years of Adultery, Power, Rivalry, and Revenge
By Eleanor Herman

Here's the quote:

"Agreeing with the age-old adage that the bedded can't be wedded, a patron of a London pub reportedly said, "It just won't do. We can't have two other blokes going around saying they've slept with the Queen of England, can we?"

And another:
"Like a triumphant cat bringing home the carcass of a vanquished chipmunk to his horrified owner, Edward dumped the sacred gift of his abdication in his mistress's lap."

And yet another:
"Like cracked and peeling portraits of their former selves, they became yellowed by tobacco, dried up by alcohol."



There seem to be some chapters about Charles and Camilla as well; I don't know if they are as snide as the parts about the Duke and Duchess.

http://tinyurl.com/4hyqunb

[Vasillisos Markos]

I love it!! I wonder if some wag thought it up, then attributed the statement to some "anonymous" patron in a pub.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

I love it!! I wonder if some wag thought it up, then attributed the statement to some "anonymous" patron in a pub.

I am definitely putting this book on my "to read" list. It really sounds like an interesting read.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Was the marriage of a king to a twice divorced American really the issue the British government had with Wallis... or was it her know pro-German/Nazi sympathies....?
Churchill's government had a win-win situation here to get rid of Wallis and in turn get rid of David...
Not a big fan of the late Duke and Duchess.... I think David was selfish, spoiled, and immature and Wallis was a gold-digging, manipulative, evil woman.... like I said -just my opinion...
But Heaven was certainly shining on the English when David abdicated... they dodged a MAJOR bullet!

[scooter]

There is 'Sex with Queens' by the same author as well.

[Iluvbertie]

The government certainly had other reasons for getting rid of David - including his own lack of propriety with top secret documents.

Churchill had nothing to do with it. He was a great supporter of David and actually advised him to stick it out. Churchill was out of office at the time - the 1930s were 'The Wilderness Years' for Churchill. He doesn't come into the picture as a major player in the history of resistance to the Nazis until 1940s when he becomes PM, after Chamberlain who succeeded Baldwin - who was the PM who wanted David gone, as did the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Wallis was a great excuse but there were a number of reasons to do with David himself.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

David was very taken with Adolph Hitler was well, wasn't he? Wasn't it he who supposedly leaked out that the Allies had cracked Hitler's codes?
FDR had the FBI watch the Duke and Duchess closely when they were in America as well, correct?

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave

David was very taken with Adolph Hitler was well, wasn't he? Wasn't it he who supposedly leaked out that the Allies had cracked Hitler's codes?
FDR had the FBI watch the Duke and Duchess closely when they were in America as well, correct?

David, like a lot of British aristocrats in the mid-30s was taken with Hitler's economic recovery in Germany. He was also slow to change his opinion. George VI and the Queen Mum were also of the same mind in the mid-30s - but changed their views in either 37 or 38 whereas David takes until about 1940 to become anti-Nazi to an extent.

As the Allies were still reading the top secret German codes at the end of the war without the Germans having the knowledge that the Allies had cracked the codes I don't think David told the Germans that at all. The Germans simply didn't know the British had an enigma machine and thus had the means to read all German codes.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I'll have to dig out that National Geographic episode I recently and get the details from it.... I was quite sure they reported that David had leaked info about the codes and also leaked info that caused Hitler to change the direction of his invasion of France.... and also that Churchill was instrumental in getting the Duke and Duchess to Bermuda and out of the goings on in Europe... where the Duke and Duchess were to controversial.
Having visited Germany on Hitler's dime... having the Fascist friends/supporters in Spain and Portugal....

[Royal Fan]

not to be Political but as a FORMER Monarch could he have been tried as a War Criminal

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Royal Fan

not to be Political but as a FORMER Monarch could he have been tried as a War Criminal

For what crimes?

Had he committed treason there is no reason why he couldn't have been charged in Britain with that crime but a war criminal - I don't think you could accuse him of crimes against humanity, waging aggressive war, crimes against peace or plan war crimes - these were the charges against those who stood trial at Nuremburg.

Of course many people could be charged with these crimes - from both sides (especially amongst the Soviets, but also French, British, US troops etc) but they were on the winning side - so no charges.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I don't think he was guilty of any war crimes... certainly, as you said, Iluvbertie, there were plenty who committed far more odious acts that the Duke of Windsor did.
David was just not cut out to be a monarch - he was too selfish. His whole life was centered on what it took to make him to happy...
It's summed up best by one the officers on the Duke's staff... as the Germans were invading France and the English were falling back... instead of evacuating with his men, then Duke and Duchess hauled tail to Biarritz.. the officer remarked in effect, of the Duke's actions, "....He deserted his country in 1936, why should we be surprised he's deserting his post now...."
I'm sure Wallis was behind the run to the south of France.... where she would be able to be contact with her Nazi & Fascist friends and keep them abreast of as much English activity as possible..

[Iluvbertie]

I don't think she would have anything to tell them though - if she ever would have considered doing so. What could she tell them? That the British army was retreating - well they knew that and they knew they had to make for the coast opposite Britain to have any hope of rescue.

[Vasillisos Markos]

I think the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were foolish about their respect and attitude towards fascism but i don't think they were actively encouraging or abetting the Axis powers during the war. Just being foolish and ill informed does not make them traitors.

[Iluvbertie]

I don't have a problem so much with them having respect to the fascist regime in the mid-30s as many people did - they weren't alone - but I do think they should have changed their views earlier than they did.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

I don't have a problem so much with them having respect to the fascist regime in the mid-30s as many people did - they weren't alone - but I do think they should have changed their views earlier than they did.

I agree -- many people shared their views. The sad thing is despite evidence to the contrary, many stubborn people still believed fascism would solve the world's woes and refused to believe otherwise.

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

I think the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were foolish about their respect and attitude towards fascism but i don't think they were actively encouraging or abetting the Axis powers during the war. Just being foolish and ill informed does not make them traitors.

And let's not forget, after Britain heard that the Duke may have leaked information to the other side, they promptly dispatched him and the Duchess to the Bahamas where they spent their time until the war ended.

It was the only occasion the Duke of Windsor held a British appointment, and the only reason for it was to get him out of Europe and prevent him from doing damage to the war effort, unwittingly or not.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Agreed, HM Queen Catherine!
And if the British Government and later the US Government didn't have reason to suspect both the Duke and Wallis.... they why were they watched so closely and always under so much suspect?
Didn't the US Government just release the contents of the FBI's file on them?

[HM Queen Catherine]

According to the FBI, they were told by Duke Carl Alexander of Württemburg that Wallis had been the lover of Joachim von Ribbentrop, who was a Nazi leader. Whether this is true or not is a matter of debate, but it alarmed the US government enough to keep and eye on her - and by extension on the Duke.

I don't know if they were monitoring her before this, but she continued to entertain her friends in the fascist movement even after the outbreak of the war.. and while her husband was holding a military post in the British Army.

I have not read the FBI files, but I do believe they have been released.

[Zonk]

Well her behavior was enough that the British Secret Police were watching her (and by extension the Duke) prior to the marriage.

And then there was the plot to kidnap the couple when they were in Spain/Portugal.