Royals & Protestant Religions

[tiaraprin]

As we are all learning about Roman Catholicism in the Catholic thread, I saw that some people were confused about which religions were Protestant religions. I felt perhaps there can be a forum of learning and discussing the many Protestant religions that exist today and the Royals who practice them. I would like a forum that is meant for a true exchange of knowledge; not one of a prejudical attack.

The USA, my native land, is more than 50% percent Protestant. Some of the Protestant religions in my country are: Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Anabaptist, Episcopalian, and Born Again Christianity. This is just a short list, there are many more.

Anyone who has questions about any Protestant faiths or have any news relating to religious issues with Protestant Royals, here is a place to ask and share.

 

[Saragli]

Good idea Tiarapin. I have always been intreseted in the State Churches of Protestent countrys. Is the King of Sweden still the head of the swedish church. Is presbytarian still practiced widley and scotland and how is its role in scotland compare to the anglican church in england.

 

[marlene]

a swedish friend of mine told me that as lutheranism is the state religion of sweden everyone who is born there is counted as lutheran at birth except if you specifically indicate that you are not by sending in the proper documentation to the government.Could someone tell me if this is correct.Does this mean that as the state religion the king can not change his faith?

 

[Sylvina]

These days the goverment and the church of sweden is split apart, but i still belive that the king can not change his faith.

 

[norwegianne]

These days the goverment and the church of sweden is split apart, but i still belive that the king can not change his faith.

I remember reading something from when the church/state split was a reality in Sweden, that the King himself did not want to change that part of the law. He wanted the monarch and the Swedish church to be tied together.

 

[Iain]

Is presbytarian still practiced widley and scotland and how is its role in scotland compare to the anglican church in england.

In Scotland the Church of Scotland (or Kirk as it's usually called) is not the "State Church" but is termed the "National Church." It plays a far bigger role in national life than the Anglican Church does in England but many in Scotland get rather annoyed with it as it fails to speak out on moral issues and there has been a lot of criticism of it in the press because of this. One journalist said that it had lost it's right to be called the National Church and called for that title to pass to the Catholic Church, which has for the past 30 years or so been the largest religion in Scotland, and it is to that Church that the media always turn when it wants comments on various moral issues. The Church of Scotland is now just a shadow of it’s former self. As one newspaper put it “Ask any Scot who the Cardinal is and everyone knows his name, but ask who the Moderator of the Kirk is and you would be lucky if one in thousand could name him.”

 

[Marengo]

The Dutch RF (most of them) are members of the PKN, Protestant Churches Netherlands. The PKN has 3 main branches united, lutherans (smallest one), reformed and the Dutch reformed. The RF traditionally is Dutch reformed, which is based on Calvinism. Note that it took 50 years or so to unite the protestant branches in The Netherlands and that the most orthopdox protestants immidiately split up and started the 'Hersteld gereformeerden', the 'restaured reformed'.

I am not sure but I believe the Prussian RF is also traditionally Calvinist instead of Lutheran (more common in Germany).

 

[BryanCornett]

i believe the canute family of the country Denmark when they were no longer royalty moved to france and became huguenots along with john calvin. and i also believe that John calvin protected the canute family that's how i'm here today. and i believe the Danish Monarchy knows something about this. see in order for the canute family to carry King Canute The Great's personal coat of arms they would have to prove their lineage plus have permission from the Danish Monarchy to carry the Canute Coat of the Arms from Country to country and now the Canute coat of arms is in the hands of the cornett family of the USA and that's how us Canute's still survive today.

 

[Next Star]

The Norway royals are protestant I think their Lutheran or maybe Angelican I'm
just guessing I don't know really.If I am wrong I hope someone will correct me.

 

[Marengo]

I think all the Scandinavian monarchies are Lutheran.

The house of Luxembourg (Nassau) used to be protestant until GD Guillaume IV married a Portuguese infanta. The deal was that their sons would be raised as protestants and their daughters as catholics. The couple only got daughters so after thta the GD house was catholic.

 

[Royal Fan]

This is an Interesting topic thanks for posting it

 

[Viv]

I think all the Scandinavian monarchies are Lutheran.

They are indeed!

 

[Smart]

As we are all learning about Roman Catholicism in the Catholic thread, I saw that some people were confused about which religions were Protestant religions. I felt perhaps there can be a forum of learning and discussing the many Protestant religions that exist today and the Royals who practice them. I would like a forum that is meant for a true exchange of knowledge; not one of a prejudical attack.

The USA, my native land, is more than 50% percent Protestant. Some of the Protestant religions in my country are: Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Anabaptist, Episcopalian, and Born Again Christianity. This is just a short list, there are many more.

Anyone who has questions about any Protestant faiths or have any news relating to religious issues with Protestant Royals, here is a place to ask and share.

Number of problems with this one. In particular, the idea that there are Protestant "religions" and "faiths". The word denomination is used, to denote a community within the Protestant sub-religion of Christianity.

"Protestant" has historically meant "not of Rome or the East" (ie, not Roman Catholic, Eastern or Oriental Orthodox). Thus Anglicanism/Episcopalianism qualifies under this very broad definition.

However, since at least the 1800s, Anglicanism has been very distinct from Protestantism. So has Pentecostalism.

As such, my definition of Protestant: anyone who follows the Reformers post-Luther. (Calvin, Knox, etc)

Thus:
Christianity:
sub-religions: Protestantism - Catholicism - Eastern Orthodox - Oriental Orthodox - Neo-Christianity (cults/sects of the last 200 years)

Protestantism:
All Trinitarian churches that adhere to Calvinistic or Arminian doctrine, such as Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc.

Catholicism:
Roman/Eastern - Anglican - Lutheran - Traditional - Old

Eastern Orthodox:
all regional churches that accept Ancient Patriarchates' rulings/teachings.

Oriental Orthodox:
Ethiopian/Eritrean - Coptic - Armenian - others

Neo-Christianity (those originating after 1800, without alignment with prior movements):
Jehovahs Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Science, Pentecostalism/Charismatic, amongst others.

Note - Mormonism excluded, as that is a separate religion from Christianity, despite modern Mormon laymen trying to connect it to Protestantism.

 

[Maura724]

I'm not sure how Luther and Lutheranism can not be considered as Protestant. I would define Protestant as groups which sprang from the Reformation, in protest to the Catholic church and its doctrine. The beginning of the Reformation (although there were certainly "reformers" before this, e.g. Wycliffe) is often dated to 1517, beginning with Martin Luther in Germany. IMO, it's hard not to call that Protestant. The central doctrines that set Protestantism apart in the Reformation era were a rejection of transubstantiation and a rejection of good works having any role in salvation. Lutheranism fits both these.

I agree with the description of Baptists/Presbyterians/Methodists etc. as Protestants, but why do you hang the definition on Calvinism and Arminianism, especially since those are exactly opposite doctrines?

And I'm curious why you exclude Mormonism from Christianity if you include Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Science?

 

[Smart]

I'm not sure how Luther and Lutheranism can not be considered as Protestant. I would define Protestant as groups which sprang from the Reformation, in protest to the Catholic church and its doctrine. The beginning of the Reformation (although there were certainly "reformers" before this, e.g. Wycliffe) is often dated to 1517, beginning with Martin Luther in Germany. IMO, it's hard not to call that Protestant. The central doctrines that set Protestantism apart in the Reformation era were a rejection of transubstantiation and a rejection of good works having any role in salvation. Lutheranism fits both these.

I agree with the description of Baptists/Presbyterians/Methodists etc. as Protestants, but why do you hang the definition on Calvinism and Arminianism, especially since those are exactly opposite doctrines?

And I'm curious why you exclude Mormonism from Christianity if you include Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Science?

Martin Luther died a Catholic. As he put up the 99 theses he was a Catholic. This is an irrefutable fact. He never took the title "Protestant". And all forms of Lutheranism since him and now reflect a strong connection to Roman Catholicism - something Baptists or other Protestant groups completely lack. Lutheranism is a Catholic faith. All Lutherans are Catholics. The difference between them and a Papist is the side of the Tiber River they are on.

Luther never broke from Rome, he condemned the actions of the Papacy at the time. The reason why many Historians (not Theologians) place the Reformation as beginning at 1517 is because this is the first time, ANYONE stood up (in public, unashamed) against the Roman Catholic faith and authority. This was the catalyst which later men - who were Protestant and anti-Catholic (like Calvin, Knox, Wesley, etc) built upon.

Well, I personally would place all non-Calvinists in a completely separate religion, even farther than Rome. But this is not a matter of what is Biblical and what is not - but rather the categorization in modern times.

As Mormonism is Polytheistic (literally an infinite number of gods and universes) it can not be considered part of Christianity, or even a Christianized religion - as it fundamentally denies all tenants of Christianity. (the virgin birth, the incarnation, the sacrifice at Calvary, the Resurrection, etc). This is not the case in Jehovahs Witnesses or Christian Science. Jehovahs Witnesses are Neo-Christian (do not agree with accepted Orthodoxy of 400-1800AD) as it denies the Trinity - albeit affirming some sort of divine status for Jesus (like Arius did). As for Christian Science, it's clearly a cult, but the modern concept of Young-Earth Creationism originated in Christian Science. So it's hard, at least in the case of American Christianity, to separate the Christian Science movement from Christianity.

 

[irishthanhy]

Lutherans aren't Catholic.

 

[Maura724]

I very much agree with you, irishthanhy. Regardless of what Martin Luther called himself, the beliefs he held and spread among others, and the beliefs Lutherans hold today, are not the same as the beliefs of the Catholic Church in certain very significant areas. Lutherans are closer to Catholics than, say, Presbyterians are, but they are not Catholic. A rejection of transubstantiation and the mass, and an emphasis on sola fide sola gratia are the crucial doctrines that mark a church or a person as Protestant rather than Catholic. Lutheranism rejects the mass, and its doctrine of consubstantiation is quite different from transubstantiation. And although it places a higher value on baptism than other Protestant denominations, Lutheranism emphasizes a salvation by grace through faith.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Royal families and their religion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_wAVusJWWE

The Kings of Prussia were Calvinist.

 

[Pranter]

Lutherans aren't Catholic...to say they are, that's an odd thing to assert.


LaRae

 

[Mbruno]

Legal religious tests for accession to the throne (as of today) in current European kingdoms



1) Belgium: none; traditionally, the Belgian RF is, however, Roman Catholic.


2) Denmark: the monarch must belong to the evangelical Lutheran church, which is the established religion in Denmark.


3) The Netherlands: none; traditionally, the Dutch RF follows, however, the Reformed (Calvinist) faith.


4) Norway: the monarch must belong to the evangelical Lutheran church, which is the national church of Norway.


5) Spain: none; previously (prior to the constitution of 1979), Roman Catholicism was the established religion of Spain and the Spanish RF is still closely associated with the Catholic church.


6) Sweden: princes and princesses of the Royal House must profess the evangelical Lutheran faith as accepted by the Church of Sweden, or else they are excluded from the line of succession to the throne.


7) The United Kingdom: only Protestant (and legitimate) direct descendants of Sophia of Hanover are eligible to ascend the throne; upon his/her accession, the monarch must make a declaration that he/she is a faithful Protestant and must swear to uphold the Protestant succession to the throne. Additionally, the monarch must be always in communion with the (Protestant Episcopal) Church of England and must by law swear on his/her coronation to preserve that church as the established religion in England. Finally, the monarch must also by law swear at his/her accession that he/she will uphold the Presbyterian system of government of the (Calvinist) Church of Scotland. Previously, persons in the line of succession who married Roman Catholics forfeited their succession rights, but that rule was (retroactively) repealed by the Succession to the Crown Act 2013.


EDIT: Former monarchies that were officially Catholic included, for example, France, Portugal and Austria-Hungary. Among the former monarchies within present-day Germany, there were several kingdoms, grand duchies or duchies where there were established Protestant churches, or where the ruling family was Protestant.

 

[Tweetybird]

Dont forget the open minded Unitarians in the Protestant list.

 

[Osipi]

As far as I could find out, there has only been one Unitarian monarch and that was John Sigismund Zápolya of Hungary and ruled as John II from 1540 to 1551 and from 1556 to 1570, and the first Prince of Transylvania, from 1570 to his death. He embraced the Unitarian faith from 1569 until his death in 1571.

 

[Winnie]

Lutherans aren't Catholic.

Just called my family's Lutheran Church in Philadelphia {St, Michaels} and my cousin's Lutheran Church in Phoenixville, PA and both stated quite clearly that American Lutherans are definitely not Catholic and have absolutely no allegiance to the Royal See in any way. Just because Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest and died a Catholic means nothing to the Lutheran faith today. Nothing the Pope declares or changes in the Roman Catholic ideology will change one thing in the Lutheran service or doctrine today.

 

[Osipi]

Perhaps the differences lie within the word "catholic" itself. On one hand, you have the Roman Catholic Church. On the other hand, you have the generic use of the word "catholic" which standing alone means "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing". Synonyms for "catholic" are: universal, diverse, diversified, wide, broad, broad-based, eclectic, liberal, latitudinarian;

The Lutheran church is definitely not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church but is catholic as identifying with the widely accepted Christian beliefs. The Roman Catholic Church could have easily identified itself as just the Roman Church. Perhaps this is why a lot of the liturgy in Protestant worship seemed so familiar to me as I grew into adulthood and attended other religious services besides a Roman Catholic Mass.

 

[Rudolph]

Anglicans recite the Nicene Creed every Sunday. “We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.”

That’s what Osipi is talking about.

 

[Somebody]

That Nicene creed is also used in churches that are nit categorized under 'catholicism' sucb as the calvinistic reformed churches. They might not be included weekly but are part of the creeds that might be used during a church service.

Moreover, the word 'catholic' is also used in the Apostles' creed that is also widely used among protestsnts. These churches aren't considered in any way catholic, so it is undrstood to mean general/'of all times and places'. Moreover, the saints are not people thst are declared a saint after death by the pope but all christians.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
***** the holy catholic* church,
***** the communion of saints,
***** the forgiveness of sins,
***** the resurrection of the body,
***** and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[Pranter]

Keep in mind that when the creed was 'created' there were no other organized Churches. Catholic (regardless of capitalization) referred to the Catholic Church.



LaRae

 

[Winnie]

Osipi, you are absolutely correct in the word catholic [small c] being different from Catholic [capital C] being two different meanings. We also say the A.Creed during service but it is written with a small c when saying "I believe in the holy catholic church. Lutheran Rev stated that to use the fact that Martin Luther died a Catholic [which he did] all followers of the now Lutheran faith are then part of Catholic Church would be the same as saying that since Jesus died a man of the Jewish faith [which he did] all followers of Jesus Christ are also Jewish. Realistically not true.

 

[Mbruno]

Keep in mind that when the creed was 'created' there were no other organized Churches. Catholic (regardless of capitalization) referred to the Catholic Church.



LaRae

‘Catholic’ in the sense that is used in the Creed means ‘universal’. Several Protestant denominations claim to be part of the ‘Catholic church’ in that broad sense.

 

[Pranter]

‘Catholic’ in the sense that is used in the Creed means ‘universal’. Several Protestant denominations claim to be part of the ‘Catholic church’ in that broad sense.

Yes I'm aware of the claims. One can claim anything but that doesn't mean it's an accurate claim or understanding.


LaRae