The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #21  
Old 10-27-2018, 09:01 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas, United States
Posts: 3,688
Hehe, I hate The White Princess but the last post reminded me of what she said to Henry VII about there being no divine rights of kings and that all of them had to shed some blood.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:41 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 39
Southeast Asia has the concept of devaraja which means god king.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:00 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,258
Several modern European monarchs ( Queen Margrethe II, Queen Elizabeth II , King Willem Alexander) still use the title “by the Grace of God King/Queen” . Do they believe in the divine right then ?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-14-2019, 01:05 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 3,037
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_the_Grace_of_God
__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-14-2019, 05:50 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
According to Wikipedia, "by the Grace of God” is still used in Europe by the monarchs of Denmark, Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom. The phrase was never used in Belgium ( a “ popular monarchy” from its inception) and was last used in Norway by King Haakon VII and in Sweden by King Gustav VI Adolf ( the current Norwegian and Swedish monarchs dropped the divine right claim).

In Spain, the last monarch to use “by the Grace of God” was Alfonso XIII. The phrase has not been used since the restoration of the monarchy in 1975. Juan Carlos and Felipe VI have also dropped the use of the style “ His Catholic Majesty”, using only “His Majesty”.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:40 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 483
I think, the thingy with the divine right is not so easy.

For example the British Monarchs claimed to have "a healing touch ability".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_touch

And you can still see a lot of wheelchairs at the royal church at Christmas.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:19 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
I think, the thingy with the divine right is not so easy.

For example the British Monarchs claimed to have "a healing touch ability".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_touch

And you can still see a lot of wheelchairs at the royal church at Christmas.

well, The Queen didn´t touch all of these people...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:37 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,319
Perhaps a lot of the "divine right to rule" stems back throughout history with the formation of the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican's interactions and support and, in general, the church's role in the lives and politics of the people and the kingdoms it supported. The Pope, back then, had as much power (if not more) than any king or queen did and was a sovereign unto himself. The Church of Rome also had a vast fortune to fund crusades and inquisitions and was very much "the conscience" of the people. Kings/Queens with the blessing of the Church had "God on their side".

Superstitions within the belief system of the Church were also rampant and that's where I think the "robe touching to be healed" came from. Relics of saints held magical healing properties and wearing a scapular with a saint's relic for protection and blessing and safeguarding was prominent in the Catholic religion even up to the 20th century (and may still be so) as I remember having to wear a few of them myself at the insistence of my mother.

Religion and the Church of Rome and as time passed, the different churches of the Reformation have always played a huge part in the roles of kingdoms with its kings and queens. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, noble families used to deem that the first born son would be for the Crown and the second born son for the Church.

So, as I see it, the "divine right to rule" was a man made school of thought that was deemed by the Church of Rome and its Pope more for political and control of the masses than the actual belief that God actually did deem a man or woman his choice for a ruler. Just look at all the Kings that held "divine right to rule" and went to war against each other. How could "God" be on both sides of that war?
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:49 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 13,660
Isn't that in a more modern context a kind of reference to the fact that in several monarchies, the monarch was/is also the head of the national church?
So by the grace of God seem to me like a logic way to emphasize that.

And if you are religious, surely you are ruling by the grace of God - and not least by the help of God?
Certainly QMII has often said that her faith has been a tremendous help in her job as monarch and that she believe she has a support in God. - "She is not alone."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:51 AM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 27,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post

For example the British Monarchs claimed to have "a healing touch ability".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_touch

And you can still see a lot of wheelchairs at the royal church at Christmas.
It wasn't exclusive to just British/English monarchs but across Christendom.

Clovis Ier healing scrofulous

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:15 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,258
Nevertheless , neither the British Queen nor the monarchs of Denmark or the Nerherlands own their position to the “ grace of God” , but rather to the laws of succession in their respective countries.

Could the “grace of God” mentioned in their official citation be linked then to their accident of birth , I.e. being the firstborn of a particular family at a particular time ? If so, that obviously implies a religious belief about divine intervention in one’s life circumstances , which non-believers otherwise see as merely accidental and random . In countries where the monarch is still the head of the established church, the use of “ by the grace of God” may be acceptable, but I don’t find it appropriate in a secular state like the Netherlands.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:42 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 27,779
Queen Beatrix used the style ':We, Beatrix, by the Grace of God, Queen of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau...'

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Besluit-2.jpg
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
divine right, monarchy, religion


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"The King's Speech" (2010) - Film about George VI of the United Kingdom Roderick The Electronic Domain 272 12-22-2013 07:05 AM
The Ancient Kings of Israel and Judah LadyGabrielle Other Non-Reigning Houses and Historical Monarchies 28 10-08-2012 08:12 PM
Crown Princess Victoria's Daytime Fashion Part 4: October 2010 - May 2011 iceflower Archives 391 05-08-2011 03:22 AM




Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes abdication anastasia 2020 armstrong-jones baptism bridal gown brownbitcoinqueen canada chittagong clarence house coronavirus cover-up crown princess victoria danish royalty dna dragons dubai dutch dutch royal family earl of snowdon emperor facts fantasy movie future general news thread hill historical drama house of glucksburg introduction jumma kent king salman languages list of rulers luxembourg mail mary: crown princess of denmark nobel prize northern ireland norwegian royal family palestine prince dimitri princely family of monaco princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn princess dita princess of orange queen mathilde rown royal court royal dress-ups royal jewels royal spouse royalty royal wedding royal wedding gown russian court dress saudi arabia settings startling new evidence stuart sweden thailand thai royal family tips tracts uae customs united kingdom united states of america von hofmannsthal


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:36 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×