Morganatic Marriages In European Monarchies

[ysbel]

The old myth about first cousins sprouting three-headed imbecile offspring has been debunked.

King Harald of Norway is a good example. He and his older sisters come from 2 generations of first cousins marrying each other. King Harald has had cancer but that has been tracked down to his smoking-not his parents being first cousins and his sisters are now in their late 70s early 80s and still in relatively good health for their ages.

Two families that repeatedly married first cousins, the Wedgewoods and the Darwins, had spectacularly brilliant offspring.

 

[yvr girl]

I think some people are unsuited to a royal role

Not because of their birth, but because of their character/personality. Sarah Ferguson could not handle the restrictions of royal life.

 

[Empress]

If we are taling personality wise, I completely agree that things other than love should come into play when considering a marriage, such as shared values, morals etc. But in this case, I believe Russian was speaking to his idea that there has been marriages between people who are not "equal". A person must also be suited to play the role that they marry into, should there in fact be a role to play, so I agree that the Tsarina was ill suited. She could of course have been trained better to her role. But I would imagine that when her parents considered her training when she was younger, it was not a thought in their minds that she would marry a ruling monarch. Whereas, say Catherine of Aragon was raised to be espoused to a monarch.

 

[puppigurl2005]

I totally agree with you Empress. I was a fanatic of the Romanov family and my research of Empress Alexandra was not very favorable. If I remember correctly, either she couldn't speak Russian fluently or she refused to speak it, but she spoke to her children in German and I think to her husband in Russian, and she was a supporter of Nicholas II's autocratic rule in Russia. Oh yeah, and she didn't like the way the Russian Royal Family behaved themselves in public and private. All this made her a unfavorable empress with the russian people. Plus, her mother died when she was 6. and she spent most of her childhood with her english relatives, including her grandmother Queen Victoria. One would think that she would have learned something from her.

 

[Next Star]

I believe the best thing is to marry for love and not money, power or acceptence. Now in days royals are choosing to marry commoners and not follow royals. Because it has been said before all european royals are related in some way so they want to get away from that and marry someone their not related to and someone they love. Some royal marriages were arranged but now in days they have more of a chance to choose their parnter rather than their parents.

 

[Excalibur7]

Mesalliance, Salic laws and blue blood

I understand mesalliance would be an issue for someone of the highest rank in the territory ie Prince William or who must consider their descendant's lineage and current stature and possible descendency but commoners often provide more attributes like wealth, intelligence, personality and priviledge with all the new heirs and heiresses due to the capital class.

Salic laws also prohibit many European nobility from passing on title and/or property usually on the female side but if commoners can provide similar attributes as described above it really depends on what the higher ranked individual values.

The term Blue Blood infers ancestry, class, property and breeding but if commoners can acquire even a few of those elements, it really is no longer an issue.

 

[Krisorio]

I believe that monarchies loose power, when members of a royal family marry normal people, by doing so the royal families destroy their own institution. A monarchy can only sustain itself with royal blood, once the royal blood is gone it is no longer a real monarchy, but merely some state institution, which looses all legitimacy to call itself a monarchy. I believe that if a crownprince decides to marry below his rank, he should at least have the decency to reject the crown..

 

[PrincessKaimi]

A lot of us have blood from "ancient aristocratic families," - but we're still commoners!

 

[maria-olivia]

How awful before for danish and swedish Princes. They lost their title for being Count Bernadotte (Queen Astrid's brother and others) and Count Rosenberg (Count Fleming and others)

 

[Furienna]

Five princes have been thrown out of the Swedish succession for marrying the "wrong" women. This actually lead to a crisis after Gustaf Adolf, our king's father, died in an accident. Two of his brothers and two of his cousins had been thrown out of the sucession, and when king Gustaf V died in 1950 and was succeeded by Gustaf VI Adolf, the crown prince position was put on a four-year-old boy. And a lot of responsiblity was put on prince Bertil, the only prince in his generation, who still was alive and in the succession. He had thought about marrying Lilian Craig already in the 1940s, but he couldn't do it after his brother's tragical death.

 

[Warren]

What happened in Sweden is a good example of pig-headed "House Rules" bringing a dynasty to the verge of extinction in the male line.
When Prince Gustaf Adolf died in a plane crash in January 1947 there were something like 2 Prince Bernadottes and 7 Count Bernadottes who were all excluded from the succession.

The remaining male royals were the King (born 1858), the Crown Prince (1882), Prince Eugen (1865), Prince Wilhelm (1884), Prince Bertil (1912, but committed to Lilian Craig) and the dynasty's last and only hope of survival, Prince Carl Gustaf, who was just 9 months old. Dynastic suicide was narrowly averted.

 

[Furienna]

That's what I'm talking about. We were really close to a crisis.

 

[wymanda]

Morganatic? Marriage in the 21st Century

I've just been reading an article about the forthcoming Prussian twins which deals with other sets of twins in the family. Royal Musings: Twins in the royal house of Prussia
The article mentions the marriages of these people and their parents and makes mention that some of the marriages are considered morganatic by the Prussian Royal House.
I am incredulous that a family which has no policitical presence, no kingdom, no lands and not much more than a name is still enforcing this type of medieval thinking on its members. It also appears linked to how wealthy the proposed spouse is. There is no mention that Princess Antonia's marriage to Charles Wellessly was considered unequal. Obviously the Wellesley fortune eased that path.
What do other think? Is the idea of morganatic/unequal marriage appropriate in the 21st century, especially in houses that no longer reign?

 

[Biri]

Of course it's not appriopriate, even in the reigning houses, because Monarchies (at least European ones) lost its main political significance, and in past ages politics was the main "ingredient" of a Royal marriage.

 

[NGalitzine]

Well Princess Antonia has a pretty sizable fortune of her own given that she is a Guinness heiress so money was never an issue with that union.

I do think the idea of morganatic marriages is ridiculous in this day and age, most especially since those former royal and princely families are legally commoners who just happpen to have an interesting set of ancestors. I suppose for them it is an attept at hanging on to whatever glimmer of royalty they can. I doubt a reigning royal family could ever get away with such a thing. Their people would probably be quite upset at such an idea in the 21st century.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Here, in Brazil, the Imperial Family is still enforcing a House Law that dictates tha our Dynasts have to marry equally, to retain their succession right and titles (the Brazilian Monarchy was abolished by a coup d'etat in 1889). And this have the approval of the major part of the Monarchists in Brazil (we are 21% of the population).

 

[Artemisia]

Aren't some of the non-reigning Houses bound by various House Laws which require equal marriages? Laws they can't, as far as I know, change all that easily.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Aren't some of the non-reigning Houses bound by various House Laws which require equal marriages? Laws they can't, as far as I know, change all that easily.

Well, the Head of the Brazilian Imperial House is able to change the House Laws, but he does not seem to want to do that, nor the Monarchists are in favor of a change.

 

[cepe]

This may be a silly question, but what is an "equal" marriage? Is it birth, wealth, religion ?????

2nd question: If House Laws aren't changed, then doesn't this mean that these royal houses are eventually going to die out?

 

[Artemisia]

This may be a silly question, but what is an "equal" marriage? Is it birth, wealth, religion ?????

2nd question: If House Laws aren't changed, then doesn't this mean that these royal houses are eventually going to die out?

1. Equal marriage usually means marriage between two people of equal birth and rank (royal-royal, noble-noble, sometimes royal-noble, etc). It's based on the legal requirement of Ebenburtigkeit (marriage selection restricted by the principle of equality of birth).

Morganatic (unequal) marriage in the context of royalty means a marriage between people of unequal rank, which usually prevents the passage of titles, succession rights and other privileges to the spouse and issue from the marriage. For instance, Louis XIV's second marriage was morganatic, which is why Madame de Maintenon was never Queen of France.

Quite a few of the former monarchies, as well as the current ones in the past, required members of the royal families to marry fellow royals. In that respect, Britain (and before that, England and Scotland) was one of the few countries that never had the concept of a morganatic marriage.

In some cases, there were even stricter restriction; for instance, Russian Grand Dukes and Duchesses would lose their place in the succession line if they didn't marry a person from a reigning royal family (which is why some cast doubt the marriage of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's parents was equal; although Princess Leonida was from a royal family, her family hadn't reigned in Georgia for centuries).

Religious limitations exist in many royal houses, but they don't have anything to do with equality of marriage.


2. I'm afraid that's more or less inevitable.
If they don't display more flexibillity, at some point there will simply be no eligible heir.

 

[wymanda]

Here, in Brazil, the Imperial Family is still enforcing a House Law that dictates tha our Dynasts have to marry equally, to retain their succession right and titles (the Brazilian Monarchy was abolished by a coup d'etat in 1889). And this have the approval of the major part of the Monarchists in Brazil (we are 21% of the population).

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Brazilian monarchy founded by an imported prince from a european country?

 

[wymanda]

Well Princess Antonia has a pretty sizable fortune of her own given that she is a Guinness heiress so money was never an issue with that union..

the equality was obviously in the fortune then!!

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Brazilian monarchy founded by an imported prince from a european country?

Emperor Pedro I was portuguese, but he comes to Brazil (a portuguese colony by that time) at the age of 9, and only left the country at the age of 33. He loved Brazil very much, and I believe he felt more Brazilian than Portuguese.

The next Emperor, his son, Pedro II, was born in Brazil, in 1825. So did his daughter and heir, Princess Isabel, and two of her three sons (Princes Pedro and Luiz). The next generation of Brazilian princes (Pedro's children) were born in France, because the Imperial Family was banned from Brazil, after the coup d'etat that proclaimed the Republic.

The Imperial Family was only able to return to Brazil in 1945, and eight of Prince Pedro Henrirque and Princess Maria Elizabeth's twelve children were born in Brazil. The other four (including the Head of the Imperial House, Prince Luiz, and his heir, Prince Bertrand) were born in France, but registred as Brazilian citizens, in the Brazilian Embassy in Paris.

 

[Ceallach]

Many of these non-reigning families are in the position they are in since their parents or their marriage was equal. Georg of Prussia is heir since his parents were married equally unlike his fathers older brothers. Antonio of Brazil is heir due to his equal marriage followed by his son passing over older brothers. Maria of Russia is heir because there are no male dynasts left above her due to morganatic marriages. To change the rules now undercuts their legitimacy.

In families where one has allowed an unequal marriage for their child such as Karl of Austria, after Otto had forbidden it for other relatives just tears the family apart.

It is different in reigning monarchies since their legitimacy is based on state law and it is easier for them to change the rules by a change of law. It is also then the will of the state. For someone who was once a monarch such as Michael of Romania or Constantine of Greece their remains enough legitimacy to make changes too.

When what defines you are the rules, you can not change them.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

In the Brazilian case, the equal marriage is just a House Laws, so any change does not require a parliament act or something like that, the will of the Head of the Imperial Family is enough.

 

[wymanda]

I'm not comfortable with the phrase "House Laws". A Law is enacted by a ruling parliament or other governing body. Surely these situations are actually covered by "House Rules" or "House Standards"? Either of which could be changed at any time to move forward.
The LAWS covering the British succession are currently being changed because they are seen to discriminate. In the same way saying that a dynasts choice of spouse is unequal just because they do not belong to a former royal family is discriminatory.
The other situation is the one that exists with Princess Benedikte of Denmarks son. He is unable to marry the lady of his choice because he will lose the inheritance from his paternal grandfather who was obviously a Nazi and stipulated in his will that his grandson must marry a lady of Aryan birth to be able to inherit. Again is is wrong because it discriminates and seeks to deprive him of an hereditary inheritance.

 

[NotHRH]

Without opening a can of worms, tell HSH to get a job and marry the lady of his choice. If he really has to ponder his options, he must have some serious reservations about marrying girlfriend.

 

[vkrish]

I really feel all these laws and stuff are totally silly. It partly shows the mentality of these people (or their ancestors) to change with changing times, and thats how they perished, though there are other reasons. On the other hand, they may be 'entitled' to these laws, as they are no longer 'serving' the public, and hence need not feel responsible and close to them. But then they contunue to live in their own archaic, ancient, dinosaur world..Let them be..
And I hope they are sane and mentally sound enough to realise that they are never going to 'reign' again and get bows/curtsies from 'peasants', whom they prohibit their sons from marrying to..

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

NotHRH, just FYI, his job IS running the estate and it is a large one. Prince Richard (said prince's father) stated one time that running the whole farm, estate and forest was actually not a "hobby-job" but a whole time job. That was what he was trained to do. So does have a job.

Again hopefully, the can of worms stays closed.

 

[Warren]

...There is no mention that Princess Antonia's marriage to Charles Wellessly was considered unequal. Obviously the Wellesley fortune eased that path.

You've left out the fact that Charles Wellesley, Marquess of Douro, is the eldest son and heir of the 8th Duke of Wellington. I also suspect you may be confusing the "Wellesley fortune" with that of the Duke of Westminster, who is stupendously wealthy.

wasn't the Brazilian monarchy founded by an imported prince from a european country?

Not an "imported prince" as most would understand the term in the context of Sweden and Norway. Since at least 1645 the heir to the crown of Portugal bore the title Prince (or Princess) of Brazil. In 1808 the Portuguese Royal Family arrived in Rio after fleeing Napoleon's armies; in 1821 King Joao VI returned to Portugal leaving Prince Pedro, his eldest surviving son and heir, in Brazil. Pedro subsequently became the first Emperor of Brazil and the Portuguese crown later passed to Pedro's brother.

He is unable to marry the lady of his choice...

Hereditary Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg could marry his long-term girlfriend tomorrow if he wanted to. The potential loss of his inheritance may be the reason for his current unmarried state but there is no legal impediment to him marrying whoever he chooses.