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  #81  
Old 02-02-2023, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Emperor Charles of Austria in the European Theater during the First World War
Sadly he was Emperor for less than 2 years only and then banished from his homeland in 1919 following the Dissolution of the Hapsburg Monarchy!

He was one of many dethroned Monarchs after WWI and more joined this list after WWII.
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  #82  
Old 03-11-2023, 06:03 PM
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Did not know I needed this before today.
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  #83  
Old 03-11-2023, 06:08 PM
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Actually a very good historical summing up. Better, faster and more to the point than many documentaries.
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  #84  
Old 03-11-2023, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Sadly he was Emperor for less than 2 years only and then banished from his homeland in 1919 following the Dissolution of the Hapsburg Monarchy!

He was one of many dethroned Monarchs after WWI and more joined this list after WWII.
When the train that took the lmperial family into exile crossed the Swiss border Karl turned to a courtier and said "700 years".
It had been a few decades less than 700 years since his ancestors had come across the same border from the west to Austria.
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  #85  
Old 03-11-2023, 06:38 PM
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Actually a very good historical summing up. Better, faster and more to the point than many documentaries.
And it rhymes and there's dancing and pointed eye rolls!
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  #86  
Old 03-13-2023, 11:55 PM
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I just read the most scandalous article about Operation Willy, consisting of overthrowing George VI for King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson with help from Franco and Hitler.

If webpage defaults to Spanish language, just mouse over it, right click and select Translate on the article below:


How the Duke of Windsor (like Prince Andrew) avoided sitting in the dock (Court for Treason)

Excerpts:
"The dukes were plotting to wrest the throne from George VI, take it back for themselves and be a puppet in the hands of Germany...Ribbentrop, the very powerful Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Third Reich, with the support of Minister Serrano Súñer, strong man of the Franco regime, launched the so-called 'operation Willy', with the invaluable help of Miguel Primo de Rivera and Ángel Alcázar de Velasco...

Most historians agree that Hitler was prepared to reinstate the Duke of Windsor as king, yes, 'his' king, a monarch at the service of the Third Reich, a National Socialist monarch in his fight against communism...

...the(ir) long exile that was always marked by a marked by a deep disloyalty of the Duke towards his niece, Queen Elizabeth...

...everything that the Duke of Windsor did was not known until 1995, when the Portuguese police of the Salazar dictatorship, the PIDE, declassified documents that left no doubt about the claims of the former British king for less than a year. The Duke had died in 1972, so he could no longer be accused of high treason to the monarch, thus escaping a trial that perhaps would have sat him in the dock.
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  #87  
Old 03-14-2023, 06:32 PM
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Even Churchill admitted the Duke was "pro-Nazi" (why he ever spoke to him again, I simply can't imagine). But there's no evidence that Edward was actively or even passively collaborating with them during the war (or more serious historians would have written the books by now, not gossip magazines) — which is how he avoided being charged with treason.

Even this article, which also says he should have gone to prison for writing to Hitler, apparently forgets that that was in 1937, when that wouldn't have been remotely treasonous or illegal. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/royals...etter-29432123
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  #88  
Old 03-14-2023, 11:30 PM
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For all he was a King, he was also a patriot who strained at the leash of Winston Churchill who refused to allow him to do his duty (to his mind) the British government knew he was the ace, the one that the people would stand behind and to be honest they used him for propaganda.

The Queen, when asked why the Princesses were not evacuated to Canada merely replied that the children wouldn't go without her and she would never leave without the King and the King would never leave his country.

Trying to keep him from danger in a country at war was no small task. He felt he needed to be there to greet the survivors of Dunkirk and tried even harder to land in Normandy on D Day. It must have been hard for him not to be able to "do his bit" and reduced to ensuring the baths in the Palace did not exceed 5" per family, once a week. He even had the baths marked.

But the presence of the King, Queen and Princesses was worth its weight in gold as he managed to make he and his family a symbol of hope. Had the country fallen who knows what would have happened.
The Queen Mother's will was stronger than any other Queen that preceded her. She refused to run away, which is a reason why monarchies get deposed. Leaving the country is sending the message you are leaving your people behind. Instead, she stayed, and the family became part of the resistance too even knowing Hitler would have executed all of them, adults and children, had he landed in the UK.
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  #89  
Old 03-15-2023, 07:39 AM
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The Queen Mother's will was stronger than any other Queen that preceded her. She refused to run away, which is a reason why monarchies get deposed. Leaving the country is sending the message you are leaving your people behind. Instead, she stayed, and the family became part of the resistance too even knowing Hitler would have executed all of them, adults and children, had he landed in the UK.



But it certainly did not send that message in case of the dutch, norwegian and luxemburgian Royals.-
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:14 AM
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In the end it did not, but in the beginning the flight of Q. Wilhelmina was rather controversial among large parts of the population. She left while the army was still fighting, many saw it as a betrayal. Portraits of the Queen were put in the garbage bin and royal orders were thrown away. It was a great gift to the German propaganda. In her own memoirs the Queen wrote that she realised the 'crushing impression' her flight had caused. She also found it necessary to defend her move - 14 years after the war ended.

As the war continued feelings changed and due to her radio speeches on the BBC Wilhelmina was able to turn herself into the voice of a free Netherlands and a war heroine. In hindsight it was the only sensible thing to do of course.

About the UK: on what basis can it be claimed that the Nazis planned to execute the RF? The Germans did not do so in Denmark and Belgium. I fail to see why they would do such a thing in the UK. In Western Europe every German occupation started with a velvet glove to keep order.

Had the Germans managed to occupy the UK I am sure the government and the RF would have been evacuated to 'free' areas and lacking those probably to Canada.
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  #91  
Old 03-15-2023, 09:25 AM
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Anyone remember the movie Cleopatra, and better yet, the real event during the maritime battle between Rome and Egypt? She abandoned the battle with her giant ship, causing Marc Anthony to have his ship follow her and chaos ensured. Rome won the battle. If you abandon your warriors, then they don't need to fight for you.

In modern times, when a royal leaves the country upon an invasion, not a revolt, an invasion, more than likely is viewed as cowardice and abandonment of their fellow subjects. Sending the young royals away for safety is better than the entire family getting out all at once. If you are the head of the nation, then be like a captain and fight for it or go down with the ship in an act of bravery. The children will be safe in temporary exile and their parents, captured or not, will be heroes.
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  #92  
Old 03-15-2023, 09:48 AM
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In the end it did not, but in the beginning the flight of Q. Wilhelmina was rather controversial among large parts of the population. She left while the army was still fighting, many saw it as a betrayal. Portraits of the Queen were put in the garbage bin and royal orders were thrown away. It was a great gift to the German propaganda. In her own memoirs the Queen wrote that she realised the 'crushing impression' her flight had caused. She also found it necessary to defend her move - 14 years after the war ended.

As the war continued feelings changed and due to her radio speeches on the BBC Wilhelmina was able to turn herself into the voice of a free Netherlands and a war heroine. In hindsight it was the only sensible thing to do of course.
Yes I often wondered about that and the queen seems have turned it around judging by the jubilant scenes from her return in 1945
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  #93  
Old 03-15-2023, 11:00 AM
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About the UK: on what basis can it be claimed that the Nazis planned to execute the RF? The Germans did not do so in Denmark and Belgium. I fail to see why they would do such a thing in the UK. In Western Europe every German occupation started with a velvet glove to keep order.
That they tried to kill King Haakon and CP Olav starting literally minutes after the former refused to cooperate, and kept it up for another two months until they escaped? (Even then, Queen Elizabeth was apparently not ecstatic at having indefinite houseguests at Buckingham Palace.)

There's also plenty of evidence that they saw Leopold III and his wife and children as highly disposable towards the end of the war.

I haven't read the plans for Operation Sea Lion, but I imagine if the RF was not evacuated to Canada the Nazis might have left them alone. Or they could have decided that executing them, the Gloucesters and the Kents left them with an excellent excuse to bring Edward VIII back — which they might have done if they escaped, anyway.
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  #94  
Old 03-15-2023, 11:58 AM
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About the UK: on what basis can it be claimed that the Nazis planned to execute the RF? The Germans did not do so in Denmark and Belgium. I fail to see why they would do such a thing in the UK. In Western Europe every German occupation started with a velvet glove to keep order.
There's no doubt in my mind that British royals could have been potential victims during a Nazi occupation of the United Kingdom. When dealing with the Germans being a royal or a head of state offered little protection. They killed their ally King Boris of Bulgaria when he refused to cooperate. They put various members of the Italian and Bavarian royal families in concentration camps together with members of the Polish branch of the Habsburgs and other high ranking Polish aristocrats were among the first to fall victims to the Nazi genocidal politics against the Polish nation.

Edit: Since posting I did some reading and found that King Boris death can't be as surely pinned on the Nazis as I believed and that both his children has expressed their belief that it could also have been the Communists that were responsible for his death with Princess Maria Louisa being convinced that was the case.
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