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  #521  
Old 06-02-2020, 12:14 PM
Nobility
 
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I think there is a greater chance of an evolution towards a purely ceremonial monarchy alongside an elected presidency in some monarchies. There's no earthly reason why there can't be an elected president and a royal family in the same state. it doesn't have to be binary.

Thankfully, the days of violent upheavals and revolutions in Europe are increasingly distant, so unless there is an earth-shaking scandal, it would seem more likely for the shift to an elected head of state being 'softer', and the establishment of a system in which the royal families would be removed from the pinnacle of the state but still recognised for their cultural, symbolic and ceremonial roles. Ironically, this may open the door for a restoration of other royal families (Romania? Albania? Serbia?) to a similar role.
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  #522  
Old 06-02-2020, 12:34 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
I think there is a greater chance of an evolution towards a purely ceremonial monarchy alongside an elected presidency in some monarchies. There's no earthly reason why there can't be an elected president and a royal family in the same state. it doesn't have to be binary.

Thankfully, the days of violent upheavals and revolutions in Europe are increasingly distant, so unless there is an earth-shaking scandal, it would seem more likely for the shift to an elected head of state being 'softer', and the establishment of a system in which the royal families would be removed from the pinnacle of the state but still recognised for their cultural, symbolic and ceremonial roles. Ironically, this may open the door for a restoration of other royal families (Romania? Albania? Serbia?) to a similar role.
there would be complaints abuot the cost. If Monarchies cost a lot and are inegalitiarian are the public going to pay for a royal family AND a elected President?
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  #523  
Old 06-02-2020, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
I think there is a greater chance of an evolution towards a purely ceremonial monarchy alongside an elected presidency in some monarchies. There's no earthly reason why there can't be an elected president and a royal family in the same state. it doesn't have to be binary.

Thankfully, the days of violent upheavals and revolutions in Europe are increasingly distant, so unless there is an earth-shaking scandal, it would seem more likely for the shift to an elected head of state being 'softer', and the establishment of a system in which the royal families would be removed from the pinnacle of the state but still recognised for their cultural, symbolic and ceremonial roles. Ironically, this may open the door for a restoration of other royal families (Romania? Albania? Serbia?) to a similar role.

I don't see on such system being much of idea. It would be really expensive. If monarchy is expensive can you imaginate how much more expensive it will be if there is monarch and elected president. Elections and sustaining president's apartment and his workers is not cheap. And presidents too have pretty high wage. And there would be too question about what are duties of president and what are duties of monarch. Who would host state visitors? Who would open olympics? Who would give New Year speech etc? And in many European countries presidents are becoming more and more ceremonial heads. I think that president-monarch-prime minister triple system just would make administration too messy and confusing.
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  #524  
Old 06-02-2020, 03:20 PM
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It's an intriguing idea. Not sure how it would work though.

Andorra has two heads of state doesn't it?
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  #525  
Old 06-02-2020, 03:25 PM
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I don't see the benefit either. Why would the people that currently have a monarch and a prime minister prefer an 'executive president'; it seems there are more checks and balances in systems with a prime minister and ceremonial head of state (whether a monarch or a president) than in those with an executive president.
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  #526  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:25 PM
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It's not a proposal or a suggestion, folks, and I'm not arguing that it's a good thing. I just think that rather than via overnight abolitions, it's more likely that many of the remaining monarchies will get gradually and gently nudged further and further out of the political/state arena, ever more slimmed down and sidelined.
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  #527  
Old 06-02-2020, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
It's not a proposal or a suggestion, folks, and I'm not arguing that it's a good thing. I just think that rather than via overnight abolitions, it's more likely that many of the remaining monarchies will get gradually and gently nudged further and further out of the political/state arena, ever more slimmed down and sidelined.
But why an elected president next to a royal family if the indirectly appointed prime-minister works perfectly fine?! Because imho that would be going back to a monarch-type presidency where too much power is in the hand of one person - even though that person was elected based on popular opinion instead of prepared for that responsibility all his life (which in both cases can go horribly wrong).
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  #528  
Old 06-02-2020, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
It's not a proposal or a suggestion, folks, and I'm not arguing that it's a good thing. I just think that rather than via overnight abolitions, it's more likely that many of the remaining monarchies will get gradually and gently nudged further and further out of the political/state arena, ever more slimmed down and sidelined.
Oh, all of them are practically ceremonial. The real power lies with the Government, supported by an electoral mandate in Parliament. Queen Elizabeth has zero power, as we have seen with that promulgation of Parliament, which was ruled as an abuse of the royal prerogative by the Supreme Court. In the Privy Council, the Queen could do nothing else than to nod her head and say "approved" (to promulgate Parliament).

In Luxembourg the Grand-Duke lost his legislative role. His only prerogative is to promulgate laws for publication in the State Gazette. He no longer has to give a grand-ducal assent.

In Belgium the ongoing erosion of the federal state in a continuous transfer of responsibilities to the regions means that the King more and more is sidelined, as the federal government has no say in a lots of areas, which are now under jurisdiction of the regions.

In the Netherlands in theory all royal prerogatives from 1848 are intact: the King is an integral member of Government, the King is President of the Council of State (the Supreme Court of Administration as well the legislative Council to the Government), the King assents all Decrees, Acts and Treaties, invests and dismisses authorities, ambassadors, etc. But he himself has no any desire to play an active political role. As King Willem-Alexander himself said: the role of a monarchy in our time is to be instrumental for the cohesion of society. He makes no any other illusion than that. So, like in the UK, lots of formal powers, but in practice totally limited by the ministerial responsibility.

In Sweden lots of these formal powers are gone, the role is truly ceremonial. In fact all other monarchies do the same. Prince Albert of Monaco has maybe a bit more formal powers but also he is pretty a-political and leaves it to well paid, well experienced (French) politicians he entrusts with the daily affairs.
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  #529  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:47 PM
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An image with the various monarchies of Europe (extinct and present).
https://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/...313_kdhYj.jpeg
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  #530  
Old 09-20-2020, 04:46 PM
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An image with the various monarchies of Europe (extinct and present).
https://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/...313_kdhYj.jpeg
I guess Belgium and Norway would disagree... They surely think they are monarchs too...
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  #531  
Old 09-20-2020, 04:51 PM
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I guess Belgium and Norway would disagree... They surely think they are monarchs too...
Yes, they are only in the legend but are not featured on the map.
Luxembourg, Monaco and Liechtenstein are also not highlighted.
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  #532  
Old 09-20-2020, 05:55 PM
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I guess Belgium and Norway would disagree... They surely think they are monarchs too...

It also looks like Spain has gone back to the 17th century and is ruled by King Felipe IV.
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