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  #501  
Old 04-09-2020, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but that would negate the very idea of an absolute ruling monarchy. If "someone else" can take over, why should absolute power be invested in the monarch?

Then she can just give the throne to someone who actually wants to rule.
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  #502  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Once we hopefully have interstellar travel, any colonies outside the Solar System will become independent from day one.
There can be no such thing as an Earth Empire. It goes against the laws of nature.

I am afraid, you have not watched these documentaries: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away" in short "Star Wars". Or you're neither Jedi nor Sith, but an anarchist...

Well, predictions are always difficult - especially about the future ... But the tech will be invented - it always were.
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  #503  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Hector Fenwick View Post
Then she can just give the throne to someone who actually wants to rule.
and how would that person be chosen? what would happen if she/he wnated the throne back again? What if the person who "wanted to rule" was an evil monster hated by the people?
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  #504  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
and how would that person be chosen? what would happen if she/he wnated the throne back again? What if the person who "wanted to rule" was an evil monster hated by the people?

This reminds me of the "Merowinger" or "Merovingians" the very old nobility of the germanic tribe of the "Franks".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks...1%E2%80%93751)

The gave too much power to their "Hausmeiers" - today one would say Chancellors or Prime Ministers - and were deposed by them. Their clerks founded a new dynasty: The Carolingians!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks...1%E2%80%93843)

The most famous Carolingian became Karl the Great - Charlemagne.
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  #505  
Old 04-09-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
I am afraid, you have not watched these documentaries: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away" in short "Star Wars". Or you're neither Jedi nor Sith, but an anarchist...

Well, predictions are always difficult - especially about the future ... But the tech will be invented - it always were.
I have, with great delight.
And Star Trek, naturally. - There can be only one captain of the Enterprise, Picard.

Prefer Arthur C. Clarke's novels though, They are still brilliant and some of them deal very much with the problems (or rather impossibilities) of an interstellar empire. Or even one within the Solar System.
Try read Songs of Distant Earth and Earthlight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hector Fenwick View Post
Then she can just give the throne to someone who actually wants to rule.
One of the first priorities of most absolute monarchs was to ensure there was an official heir as soon as possible. Partly to ensure the bloodline and partly to avoid civil war.
It will take many years, up to several decades even, to ascertain whether an heir is suited/willing or not.
In an absolute monarchy there are a lot of people who have invested a lot in the heir. If the monarch suddenly bypass the heir, they are going to be most annoyed! - They may very well take up arms for the now bypassed royal, to protect their interests.
Whether the royal they are fighting for is interested in ruling or not is a minor problem... They will "help" him.
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  #506  
Old 04-09-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I have, with great delight.
And Star Trek, naturally. - There can be only one captain of the Enterprise, Picard.

Prefer Arthur C. Clarke's novels though, They are still brilliant and some of them deal very much with the problems (or rather impossibilities) of an interstellar empire. Or even one within the Solar System.
Try read Songs of Distant Earth and Earthlight.



One of the first priorities of most absolute monarchs was to ensure there was an official heir as soon as possible. Partly to ensure the bloodline and partly to avoid civil war.
It will take many years, up to several decades even, to ascertain whether an heir is suited/willing or not.
In an absolute monarchy there are a lot of people who have invested a lot in the heir. If the monarch suddenly bypass the heir, they are going to be most annoyed! - They may very well take up arms for the now bypassed royal, to protect their interests.
Whether the royal they are fighting for is interested in ruling or not is a minor problem... They will "help" him.
All very true... Autocracy was usually a bloody form of rule..
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  #507  
Old 04-24-2020, 11:07 AM
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WHY MONARCHY IS BETTER THAN DEMOCRACY
1. If you want something done, do it yourself.
There are several known jokes about how inefficient committees are. It doesn't matter whether you opt to call them committees, parliaments, councils or whatever. Such bodies cannot effectively run a state. That's why one person should be left alone to make decisions. At least that one person, with their strengths and weaknesses, will be able to produce some positive results, at least every now and then, as opposed to committees, who, as the joke says, bicker for ages only to end up deciding that nothing can be done.


2. More speed and less bureaucracy.
In democracy, processes are slow and, whenever something goes wrong, magically, it's nobody's fault! Every entity involved in governance will always claim that it's another entity's fault. In monarchy, where, ultimately, all powers are gathered in the hands of one person, that person cannot avoid responsibility. And of course, in monarchy, whenever something needs to be done fast, the monarch can take charge and do it fast, with no unnecessary bureaucracy and protocols.


3. Less corruption and demagogy.
A monarch can't be bribed. A monarch fears no political cost. A monarch cannot be blackmailed by possessors of wealth, who, in democracy, often use fake scandals to blackmail politicians whose decisions could be beneficial otherwise. Even the most unskilled monarch is not as detrimental to their country as they would be in a democracy. Even the most skilled democratically elected leader ends up compromising.


4. More stability.
In democracy, power changes hands constantly. It is highly unlikely that people will ever decide to elect the same person more than once or twice (even if that person is really skilled) thus giving that person the time needed to produce some really lasting, positive results.



5. It is more likely than a skilled leader will show up.
Think of it. Who is more likely to turn out to be a skilled leader? Someone elected by a huge mass of people who have zero knowledge of how a state's affairs work (democracy)? Someone who did another job until, in their 50s, they suddenly decided to become politicians (democracy)? Or someone who has been trained since birth to rule, who has set their mind and heart to that goal since the day they were born (hereditary monarchy)?


6. It was the norm for millenia.
With very few exceptions, democracy existed nowhere until about 200 years ago. All countries had been monarchies since the dawn of human history. Do you think all those countless generations of people would have accepted that system if it wasn't indeed effective?


IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm not talking about a dictatorship, a system where a deranged person can do whatever they want. True monarchy, at least as I envision it, is accompanied by a constitution that protects elementary human rights (life, freedom of expression and religion etc), a constitution that the monarch won't be able to touch. But, that aside, I firmly believe that all executive and legislative powers should be gathered in the hands of a monarch. A powerful central government is necessary for a country's prosperity.
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  #508  
Old 04-24-2020, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hector Fenwick View Post
WHY MONARCHY IS BETTER THAN DEMOCRACY

This is a very anglo-american argumentation you are offering!

Nothing about the population: education level, skill set level, religion..., culture etc.

Nothing about the economy: industrialization grade, size of the economy, what kind of currency, market development, net importer or exporter

Instead: getting things done...

What would be the difference betweeen your lifetime monarch and the two term presidency of the USA? Trump has more power, than the Emperor Wilhelm II. of Germany ever had (but only for 8 years... ).
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  #509  
Old 05-17-2020, 11:14 AM
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Future monarchs of Europe.
I decided to make here a post about the younger generations of future monarchs of Europe.
Who are the ones who have the greatest chance of becoming monarchs in the future? What's your opinion?

1. Prince Christian of Denmark
2. Prince George of Cambridge
3. Prince Charles of Luxembourg
4. Prince Jacques of Mónaco
5. Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uZ_7M3-nS...15878_1280.jpg

1. Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant
2. Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway
3. Leonor, Princess of Asturias
4. Princess Estelle of Sweden, Duchess of Östergötland
5. Catharina-Amalia, Princess of Orange

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iiuu1gc14...b5bb7_1280.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sKnvO4cRl...41623624_n.jpg
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  #510  
Old 05-17-2020, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Future monarchs of Europe.
I decided to make here a post about the younger generations of future monarchs of Europe.
Who are the ones who have the greatest chance of becoming monarchs in the future? What's your opinion?

1. Prince Christian of Denmark
2. Prince George of Cambridge
3. Prince Charles of Luxembourg
4. Prince Jacques of Mónaco
5. Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uZ_7M3-nS...15878_1280.jpg

1. Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant
2. Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway
3. Leonor, Princess of Asturias
4. Princess Estelle of Sweden, Duchess of Östergötland
5. Catharina-Amalia, Princess of Orange

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iiuu1gc14...b5bb7_1280.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sKnvO4cRl...41623624_n.jpg

Assuming of course they all outlive their predecessors, the only one out of the above who realistically might not have a throne to ascend is Leonor, Princess of Asturias. All the others are probably fairly safe to succeed, even Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant, whose future is sometimes questioned too.
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  #511  
Old 05-17-2020, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Future monarchs of Europe.
I decided to make here a post about the younger generations of future monarchs of Europe.
Who are the ones who have the greatest chance of becoming monarchs in the future? What's your opinion?

1. Prince Christian of Denmark
2. Prince George of Cambridge
3. Prince Charles of Luxembourg
4. Prince Jacques of Mónaco
5. Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uZ_7M3-nS...15878_1280.jpg

1. Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant
2. Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway
3. Leonor, Princess of Asturias
4. Princess Estelle of Sweden, Duchess of Östergötland
5. Catharina-Amalia, Princess of Orange

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iiuu1gc14...b5bb7_1280.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sKnvO4cRl...41623624_n.jpg

Assuming that they all outlive their predecessors nor removed from line of succession on some reason almost all have good chances get their thrones. Only Leonor and Elisabeth have smaller chances. Spain might become republic and Belgium might be dissolved altough both seems being bit unlikely. But other European monarchies pretty surely survive to next century.
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  #512  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:07 PM
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I still want to see Leonor as Queen of Spain.
Yes I also agree that others have great chances of winning a throne.
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  #513  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:14 PM
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When only one monarchy falls because of a referendum, others will follow soon. It is hard to defend that in for an example Sweden a referendum is held and that then the Netherlands categorically refuses to hold a similar one, with enough petitioners (in the NL a referendum is not possible about, guess three times... the monarchy).

For my own country I am not that optimistic. Forget personal popularity, which is wrongly confused with support for the principle that in a democratic society people have no any choice in their head of state.

Yes, Máxima is veeeeeeery popular. But so is Max Verstappen (a race coureur) or someone else. They will never be on the referendum paper. Year after year the trend for the idea of a monarchy is downward, while the individual popularity of members of the royal family remains.

As Spain and Belgium will be the very last to hold a referendum, their thrones are actually the most secure. It are the monarchies in countries like Sweden and the Netherlands, when a progressive wind gets it under the wings again, which are actually in the danger zone.

No need for guillotines. We are talking about decent and developed countries. For sure prudent arrangements will be made so that the Westlings and Von Amsbergs will live in great conditions in the Republic of the Netherlands or the Swedish Republic.

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about the longer term. And most likely the royal families themselves will know it as well. No illusions but reality. The support for the monarchy under the 40 yeaes old is just 55 %. Not that they dislike Willem-Alexander. Oh no, on the contrary. But simply because they disagree with the idea that someone is automatically born into a public function of state.
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  #514  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:24 PM
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Weren't referendums abolished in the Netherlands in 2018?
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  #515  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Weren't referendums abolished in the Netherlands in 2018?
The advisory referendum yes. ("We ask you something and them we wipe our derričre with it"). But many parties want a definitive referendum as it is not sustainable to keep people out of the democratic process except once in four years.
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  #516  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:31 PM
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The concept of monarchy is much broader than just a person who is called to be head of state by birth. It is the symbol and tradition of a country.
With globalization and the breaking of traditions around the world, the various countries that are still monarchies can cling to their monarchies to maintain traditions and differentiate their countries.
We must not forget that in some republics there are also no elections to choose the head of state.
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  #517  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
The concept of monarchy is much broader than just a person who is called to be head of state by birth. It is the symbol and tradition of a country.
With globalization and the breaking of traditions around the world, the various countries that are still monarchies can cling to their monarchies to maintain traditions and differentiate their countries.
That is an opinion. The statistics show another reality.


In general 68% support, under the younger generation 55% support, close to the point-of-no-return.
This trend is going on for 50 years. No surprises. It is a very slow but steady erosion. From 90% to 80% to 70% to 60% etc.

Once that 55% is under 50%, it gets a completely new dynamic. All media will jump on it. Political parties see this too and will jump on the bandwagon. Make no any illusion.
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  #518  
Old 05-17-2020, 02:54 PM
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I understand what you're saying, but we don't know what the future's going to be like.
These are polls, which indicate what a sample of the population thinks.
Polls aren't always reliable, but that's another matter...
In this poll that showed me the monarchy is still popular in all age groups and that's good.
The popularity of the monarchy also increased at the time of king Willem-Alexander's proclamation and a few years later.
In the long run, obviously, we don't know what it's going to be like.
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  #519  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
In this poll that showed me the monarchy is still popular in all age groups and that's good.
The popularity of the monarchy also increased at the time of king Willem-Alexander's proclamation and a few years later.
In the long run, obviously, we don't know what it's going to be like.

In Germany we have a saying: Who is not a Leftist at age 18 - has no heart. And who is not a conservative by age 40 - has no brain...

The youth in the poll of Duc et Pair, they will get older...
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  #520  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:36 PM
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I agree that most of these heirs look likely to succeed at the moment, except maybe for the thrones of Spain, Sweden and perhaps Belgium.

Ref the present polling- younger generations are coming up right now who share the same opinions as those in their thirties who don't care about monarchies. And some older people do not change their opinion on having a republic. The tide of history rarely changes, and I say that as a monarchist who was born in Britain and has noticed apathy rising regarding the BRF in the last twenty years.

Several of the Royal children featured are not likely to reach the throne for another forty years or so, especially George who will have to wait through his grandfather and then his father's reigns, perhaps fifty years. We have no idea what societies in these countries will be like in that time.
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