Marriage to Commoners vs Royals/Nobles

[RhapsodyBrat]

Why? and please don'use QV and haemophilia as an example.

On a scientific note, inbreeding is indeed bad because the child of married parents who are also blood relatives stand to inherit the bad genes as well, resulting in the higher risk of inheriting diseases (mostly the genetic disorders). That stands for everyone, regardless of social stature, race, religion, etc.

Here is an example of their argument against inbreeding:
Considering Consanguinity (Inbreeding) | blog.bioethics.net

 

[zinzen]

I think the only RF left in Europe that tends to stick to marrying nobility is the Belgian RF. The current King Albert and his late brother King Baudouin both married princesses/high nobility. Prince Philippe married a noblewoman, and his sister Astrid married a nobleman.

If this keeps up, the Saxe-Coburgs will be the only truly blue-blooded Royals left!

I wonder why? Is there some kind of rule that they have?

Prince Laurent did'nt marry a noblewoman, although Princess Claire behaviour's is really high standard!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Prince Laurent did'nt marry a noblewoman, although Princess Claire behaviour's is really high standard!

Of course, you are right. Thanks for the reminder and I agree 100% about Claire. She is one of the best things to happen to the Belgian RF, IMO.

 

[fearghas]

No there not that divided as you are saying here is a few examples why.
The Danish royals and the Swedish royals are 1st cousins by blood.

Protestant

The Beligan royals andLuxembourg royals are 1st cousins by blood.

Catholic

The Swedish royals and Norways royals are related but I forget how.

Protestant
Your examples only highlight the divide I was talking about. Only one relationship goes against the divide - that is that King of Norway (Protestant) is a first cousin of the King of Belgium (Catholic). The Habsburg, Bavarians and Bourbons (other than the Spanish) are only distantly related to the Swedish/Norwegian/British/Dutch and Danish families. When they are related it is through an intermediary such as the Greek Royal families.
That is why I think it is good that many of the royals who are marrying royalty are doing so across the relgious divide, Ad Georg and Duchess Elika, Prince Manuel of Bavaria and Princess Anna are examples of royals who are extremly distantly related. So much so that it makes no difference.
Everyone is related - just look at the London Lord Mayor who has recently discovered that he is descended from the Wurttemburgs and so all the other royal families in Europe.

I'm certainly not recomending 1st cousin marriages or even second cousin. I'm well aware of the problems that inheriting 'bad' genes from both parents can cause. Remember though that the parents don't have to be related to inherit the 'bad' genes from both parents. But marrying further back does not cause the problems with inbreeding that constant close cousin matings do.

Some royals might be afraid to marry a close or distant cousin because
their children could possibly come out as retarded or lame.

You do have something there as I wonder if Georg Friedrich of Prussias sisters problems were a genetic fault due to inbreeding and I would be pretty sure that the Orleans habit of marrying only other descendants of King Luois Phillipe has caused the problems for the two oldest children of the Count of Paris.
But isuch problems are no more common than the general population.

 

[Next Star]

fearghas to correct you the Beligian royals and Luxemboug royals are catholic.
And the Danish and Swedish royals are protestant.The protestant royals can
marry catholic royals but they might not want to convert to become catholic.
They might want to stay protestant and that is why they marry other protestant
royals.I know you don't have to be related to pass bad genes but it is more likey to
happen when your parents are related.This generation of royals have it easier then
their ancestors were they could only marry a follow royal and if they did not they
would lose their royal status.I am happy royals are marrying for love and not for title.

 

[fearghas]

fearghas to correct you the Beligian royals and Luxemboug royals are catholic.
And the Danish and Swedish royals are protestant.

UM that's what I said. re read my post you will see that.

 

[Next Star]

UM that's what I said. re read my post you will see that.

I saw protestant Belguim and Luxembourg and catholic Danish and Swedish. In part of your pevious post I see you corrected it later down in your post.

 

[fearghas]

No the formatting was stuffed up. I'd put the Protestant bit after the actual quote from you but the formatting put it on a seperate line, with another line between them so it looks like the relgion is above the wrong royal families. Sorry about that.
BTW just looking through another thread I have discovered that Princess Cornelias mental disability was caused not by inbreeding as I thought might have been possible but rather by a disease that can occur during pregnancy and is now treatble though it wasn't back then.

 

[Royal historian]

well i am a traditionalist and i believe they shoul've have marry people their own ranks and i dont mean it to be a princess of royal blood it can be a duchess,a countess, baroness or an asristocrats .yes time have change and i dont find any problem with commoner. some commoners princess are suitable for the job such as mary of australia

 

[COUNTESS]

People should marry people for whom they care. There is no difference between royalty and commoners, only the division that some people see. It is nonsense. There are some "royals who are quite common" and some commoners that are quite royal It is a division of a times past. We are all the same. They have better jobs. As for a black person marrying into a reigning royal family, you have Angela Brown who married into the RF of Liechtenstein by marrying Prince Maximilian. No one fainted.

 

[Count]

People should marry people for whom they care. There is no difference between royalty and commoners, only the division that some people see. It is nonsense. There are some "royals who are quite common" and some commoners that are quite royal It is a division of a times past. We are all the same. They have better jobs. As for a black person marrying into a reigning royal family, you have Angela Brown who married into the RF of Liechtenstein by marrying Prince Maximilian. No one fainted.

I agree with you Countess (of course Count should agree with Countess!!!).
The only reason, in my opinion, still valid for a member of a royal/noble family to marry a noble woman/man is that a person born in a noble family knows better that others certain rules and way of living...
This is very important in royal families. For noble families, it depends from the rank of the title and the social life the couple will have...Sometimes it means less time for the private life...this can be hard after the 1st year of marriage...
How many members of royal families divorced? how many were married to women/men of not noble origin?

 

[Shaiya]

Seriously, what is the big deal with marrying non-aristocrats? I mean, are they a subspecies of human or something? Just because they were born into a man-made title doesn't make them more suitable for marriage at all. Marrying for love is the most important reason anyone should marry. Being blue-blooded is, after all, an artificial distinction that some people have created in their minds. And no matter how much it is argued, the facts still stand; the royal genepool is VERY small and I see no reason why any royal should have to sacrifice true love and happiness to marry their cousin. Besides, even if they did marry royals, by the time the next generation rolls around, they will ALL be related. And we all know how inbreeding worked out for the Spanish Hapsburgs. Better to stretch it out, no?

And as to racial barriers, being of mixed race myself(I'm a lil' mutt) I can only advocate it. I mean, I don't see how it can still be controversial, sticking to one race is closing yourself off to so many possibilities and so many wonderful people!

 

[nascarlucy]

male heir & girlfriend whose parentage unk

This is something that I've never come across but would be very curious as to what the answer would be. A European male heir to a throne meets a woman he falls in love with. The woman comes from a good family, is a good person and is well liked by all. There's just one problem. This woman was left on a doorstep of a childless couple who adopted her. They know nothing about her biological parents except a note asking them to take her in and be a good family to her. No other information is given about the biological mother or father of this woman.

The King and Queen hire the best private investigators in the world to try to track down the birth parents. No luck. What makes it more difficult is that the area were this woman was found was a tourist area and at the height of the tourist season. They are faced with a dilemma. Do they allow their son to marry this woman who is of unknown parentage. Extensive medical and genetic tests prove that this woman is of excellent health and doesn't carry anything bad. But the unknown parentage is a problem for them especially if their son is required to marry someone of a similiar social standing and rank or forfeit his title, someone he may not be willing to do as he's been groomed since birth to be the next King.

Does anyone have an answer for this one.

 

[nascarlucy]

Since no one has an answer to this this question, I suppose there is no answer until something comes up like this. It would very interesting what would happen. If the mail royal was not an heir to the throne, it might be a non-issue.

 

[Lumutqueen]

In this day an age, I don't see why the unknown parentage would be a problem.
Most royal families don't have the "social standing" thing anymore, the except the concept of love.

 

[RJ TAYLER]

A foundling would prove to be the most minimal of obstacles in most cases. The only provisos are that the bride/husband takes their obligations to the established church/mosque/whichever seriously and that they also have a loving base to which the relationship can flourish.

 

[Kastalia]

If she was proved of excellent health (mentally and physically)as you wrote,i also don't see any problem.Not only concerning a royal family but also a common family,genes are very important.But i don't think that we will ever have the chance to find out what would have happened in that case.To be honest i don't even think that the public would ever learn about ''Princesse's'' adoption.

 

[nascarlucy]

In the United States most people who are adopted know about it as their parents have told family and friends. If someone looked into their background, they would find out about it. If it was an unusual story (being abandoned on a door step) and this woman was dating someone famous or someone royal, this story would come out. I thought of this question after seeing a tv show where they were discussing who was suitable to marry into royalty.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I can certainly see the advantage of having a bride or husband who is of equal standing to yourself. And personally I would love it if there were more royal to royal marriages, but I don't think that will be the case ever again. I see nothing wrong with royals marrying commoners, especially ones with scandals because they are the best.

 

[4Pam]

Royals and commoners are people. One might not be born with titles and money but should they fall in love with each other then there's not much the public can do about it. When you fall in love, you fall in love.

 

[Anne83]

They fell in love but for how long? I think most of these marriages will fail
Felipe & Letizia, Frederik & Mary, Haakon & MM etc. Only WA & Maxima look happy together
Anyway I'm not completely against marriages with commoners If they are carefully chosen it's ok
Look at Marie-Chantal and Pavlos of Greece She's aristocratic, a true Lady, scandal-free, educated, from a great family
An American Sweetheart

 

[Lumutqueen]

MC is the worst princess, not royal blood in her bones and is the tackiest princess I think I have ever seen. I don't see how she can be aristocratic? For that you have to have titled parents.
Education means nothing when you don't use it in the right way, if she hadn't married a Prince I am sure she would be living of daddies money.

 

[Anne83]

I doubt it MC is the only hard-working Crown Princess with her own successful business and a Mother of 5
Who cares about what she wears Don't be superficial

 

[Rascal]

Actually, Lumutqueen, I have to agree and disagree on a couple of points about MC. Anne83 is obviously a huge fan of her as he/she has claimed on several threads that MC is aristocratic, from a great family, etc. I have never been a fan of MC or her sisters. I think the family is "great" in their own minds and, while very wealthy on their own merits, are just as social-climbing as anyone else who has been accused of the trait. And she is certainly not an aristocrat, despite the committee of 1 that Anne83 belongs to claiming otherwise.

I would have to disagree, however, with your characterisation of MC as tacky and just living off of her father's money. While I don't think she is ALL-THAT, I do respect the fact that she created a successful boutique of children's clothing and was able to expand that "across the pond" from London to a second store in New York. Would this store have been as successful if she was "just" Marie-Chantal Miller? Probably not. And I would actually feel more positively for her if she used a portion of the profits to support some sort of charitable endeavor. But I would never agree that she is the worst of the commoner-born princesses (see Mabel), nor that she is tacky. Pretentious maybe, but not tacky. Tacky is a club headed by Mabel, with lifetime memberships for Clothilde Coreau and Camilla Crociani.

BTW Anne83...most of the people in America have no idea that MC exists, let alone who she married. She is hardly an American sweetheart.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I was just about the ask if people knew who she was in America.
Yes I realise that Anne83 seems to think she is aristocratic in some way or form, which we both agree is false.

Yes she created her own business etc, but I don't think she did that of her own accord, and no I doubt she would have done so well without the CP in front of her name.
She has no charitable foundation at all?

Why is Mabel the worst Princess, yes her outfits I agree are shocking but why the worst?
Now Clothilde does wear some nice outfits.

 

[Anne83]

MC is an American Sweetheart for us the American Upper Class

 

[Lumutqueen]

Has anyone ever publically said they think MC is a "American Sweetheart" that is a heavy title to bear for someone who doesn't even live there. Also American Sweetheart means, that the whole of American usaually agrees with the idea. Just like Diana was the Peoples Princess.

So technically MC should be America's Upper Class Sweetheart.

 

[Al_bina]

It is interesting to see some emotions about Princess Marie-Chantal of Greece. Well ... she is a good mother and wife and entrepreneur. I am sure she has got some charitable causes to make her look good. There is no need for her to perform duties as Crown Princess because of non-existing chances of the restoration in Greece. So let her an American sweetheart (whatever it means).

I have to say that an influx of the common blood in various royal families has been significant. It is great that Crown Princes and Princes and members of the aristocracy and nobility are allowed to find their true soul-mates. At the same time, I hope common blood will not completely drown the noble bloodlines and there will be families observing the traditions.

 

[Anne83]

Exactly We agree on something Lumutqueen
Nice post Al_Bina

 

[Rascal]

I was just about the ask if people knew who she was in America.
Yes I realise that Anne83 seems to think she is aristocratic in some way or form, which we both agree is false.

Yes she created her own business etc, but I don't think she did that of her own accord, and no I doubt she would have done so well without the CP in front of her name.
She has no charitable foundation at all?

Why is Mabel the worst Princess, yes her outfits I agree are shocking but why the worst?
Now Clothilde does wear some nice outfits.

Hi, Lumutqueen. Nice sparring with you again, ! I think my perceptions about Mabel are definitely enhanced by the disastrous attire at the Swedish royal wedding, but I believe it goes further than that.

Not being completely forthcoming about her prior relationship with a gangster/drug dealer/terrorist...whatever he was...when becoming a public figure was a real red flag for me. The whole thing as we know ended with the marriage without approval and Friso losing his place in the line of succession.

Then there was the incident with Wikipedia, which we know is not always the most reliable source of information. When the details of her past were removed from her profile on the site, I recall reading somewhere (I think here on this forum) that they had traced it back to her removing the information. Again kinda shady.

Lastly, I think also tend to assess people in a relationship by how the other person is enhanced or diminished by them. Prince Friso was IMO rather insufferable before meeting Mabel. Since that time he seems even less interesting, less effective, and less at peace.

If Mabel put one-tenth of her time and energy into making a successful, happy marriage as she did in being provocative, maybe they would seem like a happy couple and I would have a different reaction to her.

Just my two cents!

Rascal