Catholic Royals

[marlene]

Dera Marengo, Thank you very much for your valuable information, it was really interesting.Just as an aside I felt I should tell you that to say someone has converted to papism is a bit derogatory.I know you didn't mean anything bad by it and no offence was taken .It is kind of like calling someone who lives in the artic an eskimo instead of an Inuit which is the word they prefer.Also could you explain to me what ps stands for when you were explaining the difference between holland and the netherlands.thanks and please accept my explanation with the good intent that it had.

 

[Marengo]

Marlene, 'ps ' was a typo and should have formed the word 'part' as in, Holland is a part of the Netherlands (the mid/north west of the country).

I am not offended in the least and I appreciate your explanation...

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

Just as an aside I felt I should tell you that to say someone has converted to papism is a bit derogatory

I don't want to make an issue out of something that obviously isn't, but a papist is someone who is a strong advocate of the Papacy. So, I guess I'm a papist and I'd hope every other Catholic is too.

 

[pollyemma]

I don't want to make an issue out of something that obviously isn't, but a papist is someone who is a strong advocate of the Papacy. So, I guess I'm a papist and I'd hope every other Catholic is too.

I'd always thought "papist" was a sort of lightly derogatory nickname for catholics. am i wrong?

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'd always thought "papist" was a sort of lightly derogatory nickname for catholics. am i wrong?

Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".

 

[Sancia]

Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".

I don't want to go in a theological discussion (and BTW I'm catholic) but I always thought the more important in religion was not the pope but the message of Christ. Or is the pope above Christ? In this case it's not religion but idolatry.

Oh, and I don't like the idea of "praying for the other christians com back into Rome", because making the unity of Christians while saying the other "recongnize you're wrong and we're right" is not exactly kind toward the Christians.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Danielane, I think what we've seen in this thread are the two types of Catholic there are. As far as I see it, there are the modern Catholics and the traditional Catholics. I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. I don't think it's idolatry but it's hard to explain. Much like why we genuflect, pray to Saints etc. I don't think that a theological discussion would be out of place here - it might be interesting to give non-catholics an insight into RC worship to explain the actions of the Royals, i.e - why does Queen Sofia wear a Mantilla? When does a Royal lady wear white etc?

 

[Mapple]

... I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. ...

Erm... Isn't the papal infallibility limited to solemn teaching on matters of faith intended to 'bind' the Church?

 

[Sancia]

Erm... Isn't the papal infallibility limited to solemn teaching on matters of faith intended to 'bind' the Church?

Theorically, yes.

 

[Sancia]

Danielane, I think what we've seen in this thread are the two types of Catholic there are. As far as I see it, there are the modern Catholics and the traditional Catholics. I'm very much a traditional Catholic and so I have an overwhelming loyalty to the Holy Father - as far as I am concerned he is God's representative on Earth and whatever he says, he is infallable. I don't think it's idolatry but it's hard to explain. Much like why we genuflect, pray to Saints etc. I don't think that a theological discussion would be out of place here - it might be interesting to give non-catholics an insight into RC worship to explain the actions of the Royals, i.e - why does Queen Sofia wear a Mantilla? When does a Royal lady wear white etc?

Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.

 

[pollyemma]

Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".

so, do you object to the phrase "Mariology"?

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well I don't, but I think you object to the theory rather than the word. I don't object to the theory but others might. Faith is a very personal thing and some people believe one thing and others something else - even within the same faith.

 

[tiaraprin]

I think this thread has served to divide us even further! It's this kind of talk that starts innocently and turns nasty!

I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.

**I don't pray for this to happen. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. No one should be attacked, shamed, or belittled for what they truly believe in their heart on this issue.**

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.

I didn't mean you any disrespect Danielane. We've all got our beliefs and I'm not trying to change your mind!

I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.

I never said that. I said that I would like them to return to Rome. You assumed I called Catholicism the one true faith. Why do you oppose for opposing's sake?

Now, back on topic. Queen Sofia always used to almost genuflect in front of the Pope and then kiss his ring - I haven't seen her do the same with Pope Benedict. I wonder how Queen Fabiola has taken to him. Has anyone got a pic of Letizia in a Mantilla or is it just Sofia who wears one to Mass?

 

[Regina]

Well, if you're happy to be a traditional Catholic, that's good. Please let me be jappy to be a modern and liberal Catholic, who think the distinction between overwhelming loyalty to the Pope and idolatry is very hard to see.

I am a tradicional catholic, I'm 100% loyal to the Pope, and what I feel for him is Respect, Obedience, but specially Love! No idolatry. (I have to say I miss JP II so much! )I read, maybe it's just a rumour, that Princess Diana was thinking about convert herself to catholicism (her mother did it). Is it true or just a gossip? Thanks in advance.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'm 100% loyal to the Pope, and what I feel for him is Respect, Obedience, but specially Love

My feelings exactly Regina!

 

[marlene]

Could anyone tell me if the wearing of the mantilla has any special meaning?

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Not at all - but for me, something thats meant as a derogatory nickname isn't at all. It means that one supports the Pope. And I do. So I'm a Papist and I think most Catholics are. I don't mind being called a papist but I can't for the life of me, remember the last time someone slapped me in the face with his glove and said, "Come thou wormy papist , I shall strike thee down with a french stick".

I was taught the same thing in my Catholic school as well...so it transcends both sides of the "pond"

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I agree Layla. If I started a thread on Protestant Royals and stated that I hoped and prayed that Catholic monarchs would convert to the true faith, oh what a horrific problem there would be.

**I don't pray for this to happen. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. No one should be attacked, shamed, or belittled for what they truly believe in their heart on this issue.**

Here here....I would post respectfully on there as well.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

Could anyone tell me if the wearing of the mantilla has any special meaning?

Well, I believe it's a sign of dignity of humility in front of God and many older women won't take communion unless they are wearing a mantilla or veil. It's an imitation of Our Lady's typical dress with the head covered. Sofia always wears a black or white mantilla whereas Fabiola wears a black or white lace veil.

 

[Duchess]

it's an ancient custom that women cover their heads when in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament or before entering a church however, since Vatican II the custom has slowly died out.

Could anyone tell me if the wearing of the mantilla has any special meaning?

 

[mirsada]

The mantillia is worn to funeral,weddings,and baptisims. A women's head must be covered in a catholic church,be the women a catholic or not.There are various mantillias that are worn at weddings,and the Latinos have gorgeous mantillias for brides,and mother's of the bride.

Royals I can think of that are Catholic or were
The Grimaldis
K Juan Carlos and Q Sofia converted
Q Silvie was
CP Maxima was
CP Marie-Chantal of Greece (was)
CP Mary of Denmark (was)
QPaola (was)

 

[BeatrixFan]

A women's head must be covered in a catholic church,be the women a catholic or not

As someone else said, since Vatican II it isn't compulsory but the older catholic ladies in my family always do. My grandmother won't take communion from a woman either.

 

[tiaraprin]

Well, I believe it's a sign of dignity of humility in front of God

It sounds similar to the wearing of the Yarmulke in the Jewish Faith. They must always remember that God is above them. Jewish women also put on veils for the same reason.

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

QPaola (was)

She still is. Aren't all the Belgian RF members?

 

[Sancia]

I didn't mean you any disrespect Danielane. We've all got our beliefs and I'm not trying to change your mind!



I never said that. I said that I would like them to return to Rome. You assumed I called Catholicism the one true faith. Why do you oppose for opposing's sake?

Now, back on topic. Queen Sofia always used to almost genuflect in front of the Pope and then kiss his ring - I haven't seen her do the same with Pope Benedict. I wonder how Queen Fabiola has taken to him. Has anyone got a pic of Letizia in a Mantilla or is it just Sofia who wears one to Mass?

I never oppose for opposing's sake but always with good reasons for me. But as you're not trying to change my mind, I won't try to change yours

 

[Sancia]

Well, I believe it's a sign of dignity of humility in front of God and many older women won't take communion unless they are wearing a mantilla or veil. It's an imitation of Our Lady's typical dress with the head covered. Sofia always wears a black or white mantilla whereas Fabiola wears a black or white lace veil.

Just to know: where comes this special representation of Mary? Nowhere in the Gospels it's described how she looked like.

BTW, I always wondered why she's always represented with blond hair and pale skin, since she lived in a country where people looked more likely like actual arabs or palestinians (no offense intended).

 

[Regina]

BTW, I always wondered why she's always represented with blond hair and pale skin, since she lived in a country where people looked more likely like actual arabs or palestinians (no offense intended).

I think the same happens with Angels! They are always represented with blonde hair and blue eyes, I don't know why!
Our Lady of Brazil (Nossa Senhora Aparecida) and Our Lady of Mexico (La Virgen Guadalupana) are represented with dark hair and dark face. The Black Virgin is also black. Our Lady of Fatima doesn't have blue eyes, but brown eyes.
But you're correct, in many books and in many images She is represented like if she was a Nordic woman I never understood why.


I think Queen Paola still is a Catholic. I didn't know Mary of Denmark was catholic, I thought she was protestant.

 

[Regina]

Just to know: where comes this special representation of Mary? Nowhere in the Gospels it's described how she looked like.

When The Virgin lived on earth, all women used the head covered. Like many arab women still do. This doesn't come in the Gospels, this is a historical fact.

 

[Sancia]

Just to know: where comes this special representation of Mary? Nowhere in the Gospels it's described how she looked like.

When The Virgin lived on earth, all women used the head covered. Like many arab women still do. This doesn't come in the Gospels, this is a historical fact.

What are the proofs for that?
BTW, I have still many questions about the "polish" representation of Mary.