Royals Visiting The Pope


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To wear white to a papal audience, however, "is not in good taste," Msgr. De Nicolo said. The only people allowed to do so, he said, are Catholic kings, queens and other reigning Catholic royalty.
 
To wear white to a papal audience, however, "is not in good taste," Msgr. De Nicolo said. The only people allowed to do so, he said, are Catholic kings, queens and other reigning Catholic royalty.

"Other reigning Catholic royalty" does not mean "all other reigning Catholic royalty" but may also mean "some other reigning royalty"..
By the way how much accurate is the source? According to them catholic kings wear white!?!
 
"Other reigning Catholic royalty" does not mean "all other reigning Catholic royalty" but may also mean "some other reigning royalty"..
By the way how much accurate is the source? According to them catholic kings wear white!?!

Amadea: for one thing, it's a 'privilege' not an obligation to wear white, see photo File:King Albert I,and Queen Elisabeth of Belgium -Pontificale Audiëntie.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
Queen Elisabeth of Belgium chosing NOT to wear white even though she had the privilege
 
"Other reigning Catholic royalty" does not mean "all other reigning Catholic royalty" but may also mean "some other reigning royalty"..
By the way how much accurate is the source? According to them catholic kings wear white!?!

Well I guess that depends on how reliable you feel the Catholic News Service is, posted on another thread courtesy of Lady MacAlpine.

CNS STORY: Vatican dress code: Do's and don'ts for presidential, pilgrim attire

"The household's regent, Msgr. Paolo De Nicolo, told Catholic News Service that as long as a person's outfit is "decent" and "in good taste," anything goes.

That's why, when women from African or Asian nations wear very elaborate or colorful traditional formal wear to a papal audience, it's not considered a rude or lewd fashion faux pas.

To wear white to a papal audience, however, "is not in good taste," Msgr. De Nicolo said. The only people allowed to do so, he said, are Catholic kings, queens and other reigning Catholic royalty."
 
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:previous: So, from that we may infer that Charlene now comes under "other reigning Catholic royalty" and has been extended the privilege du blanc. I can't see her making such a mis-step when in the company of Albert and especially when you have someone like Caroline as a sister-in-law!
 
Regardless of Privilege , it is dreadful outfit from top to bottom and Charlene looks less than delighted to be there. I can understand this. If I were wearing a tablecloth, topped with some awful doily veil/mantilla and someone was recording it for posterity I'd be mortified too. On topic: I'd be shocked if the whole hideous outfit had not been vetted for protocol well in advance.
 
What is the history behind the black/white protocol?
 
:previous:
Wikipedia has a nice article on privilege du blanc, including its history and background.

To be concise, formal Vatican protocol for papal audiences require long-sleeved, formal black garments and a black mantilla for women. However, wives of Catholic Monarchs and female Catholic Monarchs hold the privilege du blanc, wherein they are allowed to wear white when in an audience with the Pope.
 
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Hopefully she was granted the privilege. I would hate to think that she would (or her advisors) would make that kind of mistake.
 
:previous:
I think it has already been established that Charlene was indeed granted the privilege (see earlier posts).
Protocol is very strictly adhered to on such events and Charlene would have been briefed on what she could wear beforehand, both by Vatican and Monaco advisers.
 
Thanks Artemisia! I for one loved the outfit she chose! And I would hate to think that it was in error. One of her best looks for me. The coat was outstanding, the shoes were lovely, the head scarf was gorgeous and her hair and make up were perfect!
 
How silly that women have to dress in an such awful, old-fashioned manner to meet the Pope.
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:previous:
I think it has already been established that Charlene was indeed granted the privilege (see earlier posts).
Protocol is very strictly adhered to on such events and Charlene would have been briefed on what she could wear beforehand, both by Vatican and Monaco advisers.

Thank you Artemisia for your clarifications, as always you help out setting the tone of the conversation . . . .:flowers:
 
A beautiful image of Jackie Kennedy in a very plain but elegant long black dress (givency?) with an long mantilla.

%5BUNSET%5D.jpg
 
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:previous:
Wikipedia has a nice article on privilege du blanc, including its history and background.

To be concise, formal Vatican protocol for papal audiences require long-sleeved, formal black garments and a black mantilla for women. However, wives of Catholic Monarchs and female Catholic Monarchs hold the privilege du blanc, wherein they are allowed to wear white when in an audience with the Pope.
While the Princess of Monaco is not traditionally given the privilege du blanc, princesses from certain Italian royal and noble families are given the privilege. For example, the Italian royal family: the Princess of Piedmont (Crown Princess Marie-Jose) was not yet queen but wore white to meet the Pope in 1939 as a princess from the House of Savoy.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Hw-yQLTJoHo/TIKScM32UBI/AAAAAAAAAMg/jrDLWBNjPDk/s1600/U871733AINP.jpg
 
^^^That's such a wonderful photo; what an amazing attire the Princess is wearing.
 
^^^Yes, I meant the photo of Marie Jose and her magnificent gown and jewels that EmpressRouge posted. And the photo does look like a movie still from a 1930s set.
 
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I've heard people saying stuff like Charlene's just "permitted" to wear white when visiting the Pope... I don't understand?? Does she need a permission for that??
 
I've heard people saying stuff like Charlene's just "permitted" to wear white when visiting the Pope... I don't understand?? Does she need a permission for that??

Only Catholic Queens are permitted to wear white for the Pope, everyone else should wear black. Before Charlene visited the privilege was only for Queen Sofia of Spain, Paola, Queen of the Belgians, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg.
 
:previous:
Actually, there have been examples of Catholic Princesses wearing white too - and they weren't wife of Catholic Monarchs.
Although those you listed were indeed the only living royal ladies given the privilege du blanc (as far as I know) before Charlene was granted it too.
 
I've heard people saying stuff like Charlene's just "permitted" to wear white when visiting the Pope... I don't understand?? Does she need a permission for that??

As with meeting any other head of state there is etiquette and protocol involved,the Pope is no different.This 'stuff' is referred to as the Privilege du blanc which is explained in various posts on this thread.

Video footage from Rome Reports

Prince Albert of Monaco and princess visit Benedict XVI - YouTube
 
I have a question about the privilège du blanc...I've read...that some of the German Fürstinnen and princesses also had the privilège.
Yes, you're correct. According to the Wiki page on the Privilège du blanc:

"Traditionally, this privilege applies, or has applied, to the Empress of Austria and Queen of Hungary, the Queens of Italy, France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Bavaria, and Poland, the Grand-Duchesses of Luxembourg and Lithuania, a few German Princesses [whether specific individuals or female members of certain families, and who they were, is not stated], and any female Captain Regent of San Marino.

Some other states, although Catholic monarchies, have never been awarded the privilege, and their female head of state or consorts must therefore wear black in presence of the Pope; [for example] this is the case of the Princess of Monaco [superceded, see below], the Princess of Liechtenstein, ...
"

Dress protocol
is not as "awful and old-fashioned" as some members have been known to claim...
[same source]
"Formal Vatican protocol for papal audiences used to require long-sleeved, formal black garments and a black mantilla for women. However, since the 1980s, papal dress codes (men wearing white tie, women wearing black and covering their heads) have been optional, not obligatory, with many diplomatic guests and heads of state opting to wear suits rather than formal wear...Many female leaders no longer wear the traditional outfits when meeting popes" [including the past two female Irish Presidents].

As to the Princess of Monaco...
[same source]
"The Vatican Press Office has confirmed that “… in accordance with prescribed ceremonial of the Vatican for Catholic sovereigns, the Princess was allowed [granted the privilege] to dress in white…”"
.
 

Dress protocol
is not as "awful and old-fashioned" as some members have been known to claim...
[same source]
"Formal Vatican protocol for papal audiences used to require long-sleeved, formal black garments and a black mantilla for women. However, since the 1980s, papal dress codes (men wearing white tie, women wearing black and covering their heads) have been optional, not obligatory, with many diplomatic guests and heads of state opting to wear suits rather than formal wear...Many female leaders no longer wear the traditional outfits when meeting popes" [including the past two female Irish Presidents].
.

So it's marginally less awful and old-fashioned than it used to be. Well done to the Vatican for moving with the times.
 
So it's marginally less awful and old-fashioned than it used to be. Well done to the Vatican for moving with the times.

Of all the institutions in the world, the Vatican is the least likely to modernise. Expecting such a thing is unrealistic.
 
Why shouldn't the Vatican have a dress code for those meeting with the Pope in a private audiance? Most institutions do. I have even on occassion sent people home from work for showing up in what I consider inappropriate clothing.
 
I can't understand why a dress-code to meet the Pope should be problematic, nor should it ever be changed in order to be somehow be seen to be modern. I am not religious, but would be more than happy to follow a strict dress-code to show respect for the Pope and the office he holds (I dressed smartly to go to choral evensong the other night!). I'd do the same if I met the Queen or went to someone's wedding or to a funeral - it shows an outward symbol of respect! Imagine turning up to someone's wedding in jeans and t-shirt!
The practicalities of a dress-protocol for meeting the Pope cannot be ignored either....it's either going to have to be black or white and if you stick to black you can't go wrong!
 
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