Royals Breaking Protocol

[carlota]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I didn't agree. I thought it was shameful and I lost alot of respect for the Queen when she did that. It's took a while after I saw that footage for me to warm to her again.

i guess it depends on the image you have of the queen. to me she is really stiff, and sometimes too protocolary and not too natural (which i don't blame, that's how it should be, she is the queen...) so i thought it was a cute and nice gesture to see she appreciated her.

[BeatrixFan]

She is the Queen - she shouldn't have bowed to a commoner.

[carlota]

the princess royal also broke the protocol when she walked in the funeral march for the late queen mum, when only men are allowed to participate in it.

[BeatrixFan]

That was different and I could understand that. Anne has always done things her way and she loved her Grandmother very much - I admired her for that. But the Queen shouldn't bow to anyone.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

That was different and I could understand that. Anne has always done things her way and she loved her Grandmother very much - I admired her for that. But the Queen shouldn't bow to anyone.

oh, i think you misunderstood me, beatrix. after all what you say is totally right. i was just mentioning anne's beaking of protocol as another different example r the thread. :)

[BeatrixFan]

Sorry Carlota - you get my meaning though. I hope!

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by carlota

the princess royal also broke the protocol when she walked in the funeral march for the late queen mum, when only men are allowed to participate in it.

As much as I believe in equality for women, that break in protocol really bugs me. I don't know why but it does. :(

[Layla1971]

Originally Posted by carlota

the princess royal also broke the protocol when she walked in the funeral march for the late queen mum, when only men are allowed to participate in it.

I like the idea, maybe Ysbel you just aren't used to seeing women in such a traditionally male dominated activity - in a uniform and walking in a funeral.

If you're American or just know it's history, Jacqueline Kennedy walked behind President Kennedy's coffin. It was the most dignified thing that I've seen a First Lady do.

Maybe the military uniform gets to you.

BTW, I can't remember to well, I think Anne wore her military uniform, not sure.

[Incas]

Yes, Anne wore her uniform in both processions.

[Layla1971]

Originally Posted by Incas

Yes, Anne wore her uniform in both processions.

Thanks Incas, my memory is bad!:o

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

She is the Queen - she shouldn't have bowed to a commoner.

First of all, Lady Di was not really a comoner, she was the Princess of Wales and mother of the future King.

Second, if you remember, in Prince Rainiers funeral, King of Spain, King of Belgium and President Chirac did the same, it was paying honour to a deceased royal.

But the real reason this day IMO, was to come close to the people again. If you remember these days, people was overemotionned for Diana's death, they blamed and hated Prince Charles, and they were very close to also blame the Queen, because she was considered to have been not supporting Diana in Camilla's story and letting Charles living his affair, quitely. For that she did also a TV speatch for Diana, UNCREDIBLE action, and she bowed the head. She wanted to saw to her people that she was sharing their emotion for Diana's death, otherwise people would believe that she did'nt care....

[BeatrixFan]

First of all, Lady Di was not really a comoner, she was the Princess of Wales and mother of the future King.

She was a divorcee. She was Charles ex-wife. The Queen shouldn't bow to anyone. Not her own family, not anybody. And certainly not that woman.

Second, if you remember, in Prince Rainiers funeral, King of Spain, King of Belgium and President Chirac did the same, it was paying honour to a deceased royal.

Prince Rainier was a different case entirely. He was a Monarch. For them to bow to him, it was a mark of respect to a man of their own kind.

For that she did also a TV speatch for Diana, UNCREDIBLE action, and she bowed the head. She wanted to saw to her people that she was sharing their emotion for Diana's death, otherwise people would believe that she did'nt care....

And why should she care? I thought the speech and the bowing business was totally unacceptable.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by fandesacs2003

But the real reason this day IMO, was to come close to the people again. If you remember these days, people was overemotionned for Diana's death, they blamed and hated Prince Charles, and they were very close to also blame the Queen, because she was considered to have been not supporting Diana in Camilla's story and letting Charles living his affair, quitely. For that she did also a TV speatch for Diana, UNCREDIBLE action, and she bowed the head. She wanted to saw to her people that she was sharing their emotion for Diana's death, otherwise people would believe that she did'nt care....

The real reason for the Queen's actions after Diana's death was to ward off an angry spiteful vindictive lynch mob that was literally at the Palace Gates.

Such a lynch mob didn't deserve such a lovely Queen who for her whole life had sacrificed her own happiness for her country and had always carried out her duties with dignity and respect. I would not have blamed the Queen if she had decided the throne wasn't worth such a sacrifice if it was for such an ungrateful people and stepped down from her throne.

Luckily for us, the Queen is much more loyal to her people than they are to her and she stuck it out.

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by ysbel

The real reason for the Queen's actions after Diana's death was to ward off an angry spiteful vindictive lynch mob that was literally at the Palace Gates.

Such a lynch mob didn't deserve such a lovely Queen who for her whole life had sacrificed her own happiness for her country and had always carried out her duties with dignity and respect. I would not have blamed the Queen if she had decided the throne wasn't worth such a sacrifice if it was for such an ungrateful people and stepped down from her throne.

Luckily for us, the Queen is much more loyal to her people than they are to her and she stuck it out.

What did she sacrifice??? She lives on her people back, she is incredibly rich and for decades she was even not paying taxes.....
Dutch Queen pays taxes and people respect her for that. Queen Elisabeth started to pay taxes only after the windsor castle burned. By the way she tried to make the repairs paid by the people taxes, you think is that normal???
And I do not think that she would ever step down from her throne, she is very comfortably sat on it.
And when the London subway exploded, I do not remember her running to comfort their people. Spain and Jordanian royal did it IMMEDIATELY

I do not know if you are British, but if you are, could you explain why British people love so much the Queen? It's a mystery for a non British to understand. For the Quuen Mum, OK, she proved many things during the world, but the Queen??

[Warren]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

And why should she care? I thought the speech and the bowing business was totally unacceptable.

Ah, but it was an extraordinary time, and an extraordinary response was called for. Queen Elizabeth addressed her people at a time of national shock and mourning. This is what a Monarch does. People don't remember the bowing to Diana's cataflaque as HM humbling herself, they remember it as a touching and fitting gesture. The entire Royal Family gathered in the forecourt of Buckingham Palace, paying their respects, was appropriate for the heightened emotions of the occasion. It was also appropriate for Princes William and Harry to see their mother, in death, being given special consideration by the Queen.

[ysbel]

I am not British but I do know that the Queen was never meant to be queen. She had always wanted to have the life of a country gentlewoman running an estate far from the public eye and as a minor royal which she would have been if her uncle had not abdicated, she would have such a life.

Her father died when she was 25 leaving her to assume the throne with two young children who she had to leave for extended periods to assume the duties of the monarchy.

None of the monarchs traditionally have paid taxes. Elizabeth, Beatrix and the others all started paying taxes but its a recent phenomenon. A lot of people expected taxes to repair Windsor Castle because it was government property and not the Queen's. Why should she foot the bill to renovate property that is not hers?

The Queen reached out after the subway bombs and she even extended condolences to President Bush after Hurricane Katrina hit the United States so I don't know why you're saying she didn't reach out to her people in times of need.

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by Warren

Ah, but it was an extraordinary time, and an extraordinary response was called for. Queen Elizabeth addressed her people at a time of national shock and mourning. This is what a Monarch does. People don't remember the bowing to Diana's cataflaque as HM humbling herself, they remember it as a touching and fitting gesture. The entire Royal Family gathered in the forecourt of Buckingham Palace, paying their respects, was appropriate for the heightened emotions of the occasion. It was also appropriate for Princes William and Harry to see their mother, in death, being given special consideration by the Queen.

EXACTLY, PERFECTLY SAID

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Warren

The entire Royal Family gathered in the forecourt of Buckingham Palace, paying their respects, was appropriate for the heightened emotions of the occasion.

Yes, Warren, it's entirely appropriate (and good survival sense) to throw a piece of meat at a snarling dog to save your life. But it doesn't make the whole scene any less distasteful.

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I am not British but I do know that the Queen was never meant to be queen. She had always wanted to have the life of a country gentlewoman running an estate far from the public eye and as a minor royal which she would have been if her uncle had not abdicated, she would have such a life.

Her father died when she was 25 leaving her to assume the throne with two young children who she had to leave for extended periods to assume the duties of the monarchy.

None of the monarchs traditionally have paid taxes. Elizabeth, Beatrix and the others all started paying taxes but its a recent phenomenon. A lot of people expected taxes to repair Windsor Castle because it was government property and not the Queen's. Why should she foot the bill to renovate property that is not hers?

The Queen reached out after the subway bombs and she even extended condolences to President Bush after Hurricane Katrina hit the United States so I don't know why you're saying she didn't reach out to her people in times of need.

I may be wrong. I remember in the morning of the Madrid explosion, less than one hour after, the WHOLE royal family of Spain was out to run visit the victims. You had the impression that they rushed, they even not"'washed their tooth' in order to be immediately there.

On London Subway bombing, for days I did not see a single pic of the Queen being immediately there, I think only Prince Charles. Maybe she went later, but I think not immediately. Maybe it is question of peoples caracter, but did we see the Queen crying and trying to console families, as Queen Sofia or Queen Ranja did ???

[Oppie]

I thought you always bowed when a coffin passed. I'm sure other royals at funerals have. The only two examples I can think of at the moment are Queen Elizabeth at her mother's funeral and the swedish royal family when the victims of the tsuanmi came back (at the airport). I think that not only was that apporirate but it wasn't breaking protacol.

As for the everything else that week. I just remember thinking leave them alone. I didn't see any reason for either the statement by the Queen or them coming back to look at flowers. They should have been left in peace.

edited to add: Re the London explosions. You saw the Queen with one or two people and Princess Anne with one. The rest of the visits were done without cameras. Also I remember talking about this in my foreign policy class. The entire reaction between England and Spain was so different. England was about moving on as quickly as possible, there was more mourning in Spain. Everyone from the Royals to the common people dealt with it differently in the two countries. Well one of the most powerful images from Spain might have been the Queen consolling a victim, from England it was the 100000 people who showed up for D-Day rembrance a few days later. Nothing was wrong with either but I think it is wrong to compare them because they were so different.