Royal Protocol and Etiquette


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
:previous: I certainly hope so as in the case of family gatherings the BRF arrive in reverse order of precedence and leave in order of precedence. Simply stated, she's holding up the line!

Timing matters and when arriving at church you don't hold up the Queen. At other events where they are the guests, their hosts may have worked weeks or even months to ensure that everything goes right and Harry messing them about is rude. Fluttering all over the show can come after the formal reception line.
 
Meghan is still smoothing this aspect out for sure
For example during her first few walk abouts she used to have very long conversations with everyone to the extent that bystanders can film her close to 10 minutes answering and asking questions so the entire video looked like an on camera interview.

Now she is generally much quicker on walk abouts and tried to run around and greet as many people as possible instead of trying to have a conversation with everyone.

I blame this a bit more on Harry trying to be chivalrous but it often ends up looking awkward on camera. Meghan usually does try to signal Harry to go first only for him to signal her to go before him we've watched this exchange happen innumerable times in the past few months. This results in Meghan going first when it should be Harry and Meghan trying to get Harry's attention so he can go first. It looks awkward and wastes tiny moments of time.

It's a minor issue that they need to smoothen out but I am sure they will stick to the more traditional set up for more formal occasions.

Just like the couple usually doesn't tend to do the pair of 2 set up for most engagements and usually stick to one guide or 2 guides flanking them on each side.

They just need to nail down when exactly it's better to go with the traditional set up and when to go with their own set up.
 
I blame this a bit more on Harry trying to be chivalrous but it often ends up looking awkward on camera. Meghan usually does try to signal Harry to go first only for him to signal her to go before him we've watched this exchange happen innumerable times in the past few months. This results in Meghan going first when it should be Harry and Meghan trying to get Harry's attention so he can go first. It looks awkward and wastes tiny moments of time.

It's a minor issue that they need to smoothen out but I am sure they will stick to the more traditional set up for more formal occasions.

Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.
 
Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.

Dublin was actually what came to mind when I was thinking about this. When they were with the Taoiseach and entering into the room to sign the vistors book. Just before they entered you can tell there was some hold up at the door way where Harry, Meghan and the Taoiseach were trying to signal to each other to go in first (this wasn't fully visible on camera but you could see some of the movements through the door-frame).

In the end Meghan entered the room first but stopped immediately and motioned for Harry to go ahead so that he would be the one to sign the visitors book first. Just tiny awkward moments nothing major but needs to be smoothed out overall.
 
Interesting. I saw Meghan made sure he signed the book 1st, but I missed the fumbling at the door. Clearly Harry’s not all that pressed about the protocol. Seems silly that often Meghan is the one trying to ensure they follow it, but she catches all the heat when they don’t.
 
It seems that Harry does the ladies first unless there is a reason why it has to be done otherwise (ie. formal event with other members of the BRF, official photos, etc.). I guess being that Ireland isn't a monarchy, the royal seniority protocol was slightly relaxed. But yes, I do agree that Meghan is the one that's trying to follow protocol as much as possible, yet gets blamed for when Harry lets her go in first (part of a much bigger conversation, but not for here) just like the break protocol stories that came out after Nottingham about her walking in front of him. Reality is, for engagements like the ones they did that day, other royals don't follow this protocol that strictly either. But of course, the underlining theme was the woman didn't know her place. I think some of us on here even pointed out back then that he put his hand on her back and gestured for her to walk in front of him after the articles came out.
 
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Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.
Walkabouts are fair game and the only problem Samantha and their Security have is keeping up with them. Actually, I have visions on an RPO gritting his teeth every time Harry and Meghan stretch way over the barriers to touch hands.

But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

It seems that Harry does the ladies first unless there is a reason why it has to be done otherwise (ie. formal event with other members of the BRF, official photos, etc.). I guess being that Ireland isn't a monarchy, the royal seniority protocol was slightly relaxed. But yes, I do agree that Meghan is the one that's trying to follow protocol as much as possible, yet gets blamed for when Harry lets her go in first (part of a much bigger conversation, but not for here) just like the break protocol stories that came out after Nottingham about her walking in front of him. Reality is, for engagements like the ones they did that day, other royals don't follow this protocol that strictly either. But of course, the underlining theme was the woman didn't know her place. I think some of us on here even pointed out back then that he put his hand on her back and gestured for her to walk in front of him after the articles came out.
No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.
 
But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.

The only thing I’ve noticed in the reception line is that sometimes they are so close, it ends up being one person doing introductions rather than two at less formal events. Which, if that’s how they usually do it, I don’t see a problem. That’s just how this couple work, and if you are organizing an event for them, it’s well known this is something that might happen at this point.

And I wasn’t talking about the car door. Rather how they walk in. But as for the car door, it’s not always one particular side that closest. The only time I remember was Nottingham. Meghan did arrive and leave on the side the further away from the entrance/reception line even though the sides changed. Heck, when they arrived at The Academy, Harry straight up went to other side and walked with her rather than just keep walking along the SUV towards the building. Now back to what my post was about. The issue is Meghan walking in front of Harry and how that comes about and how that was reported as who broke protocol. It was absolutely about gender and blaming Meghan for breaking protocol by walking in front of Harry when Harry had his hand on her back and gestured for to walk ahead of him.
 
Walkabouts are fair game and the only problem Samantha and their Security have is keeping up with them. Actually, I have visions on an RPO gritting his teeth every time Harry and Meghan stretch way over the barriers to touch hands.

But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.

I think Jacqui meant that the media harping about protocol is a gender thing not the protocol itself. The media never reports that Harry will literally push Meghan in front of him to be greeted first or purposely hang back so she is greeted first. He is pretty obvious about it so it’s not like the media can’t have noticed.

Same with the PDA. Harry initiatives just as much as Meghan but it’s always “Meghan CLINGS to Harry.”
 
True and this is the type of tabloid headline that brings in the clicks and critics!!!;)
Same with the PDA. Harry initiatives just as much as Meghan but it’s always “Meghan CLINGS to Harry.”
 
Walkabouts are fair game and the only problem Samantha and their Security have is keeping up with them. Actually, I have visions on an RPO gritting his teeth every time Harry and Meghan stretch way over the barriers to touch hands.

But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

I suspect that by the time they have been through the intensive Australia/South Pacific tour a lot of this will have been smoothed out. It's early days, and they haven't really had time to hit their rhythm as a working couple yet. Its going to be interesting to see how they learn to keep the events moving along, at the same time keeping some of the warmth that makes them engaging as a couple.

That said, I agree that it is inconsiderate of the organizers (their hosts) to do their own freeform thing during reception lines and the more formal meet and greets.
 
Tips on meeting British Royals?

Hello everyone!

I've read various accounts on people who've met any member of the British Royal Family. For some of these people, they met the royals by the way of getting invited to the receptions at Buckingham Palace. Others say they met the royals during their engagements elsewhere in the UK or overseas. Granted, events that involve the British royals are normally high security and its understandable.

For those who did get to meet any of them, what tips would you offer to people who are about to do the same or are interested to do the same?
 
Can any one throw some light on seating etiquette at Banquets/State dinners. Downton Abbey table manners stipulate to enter and leave from the right of the chair. Hoever commonwealth defence forces which carry the British legacy of life style and dinning teach the soldiers and officers to enter from the left side of the chair and leave from the right. Armies in USA, Canada and India still follow this rule religiously. What I want to know is what’s the rule at the Buckingham Palace. I saw the Queen entering from the right of thr chair in dinner with Army in 1956 but from the left of the chair in recent state dinners. The guest on the two long tables on right and left of the table were doing it differently. The ones in left side were entering from the left of the chairs and the ones on the right table were entering from thr right side. I just wonder what’s the protocol guests have to follow.
 
:previous: Well, normally, if eating out-house, one does so in a restaurant - and there the customer is King... left vs right? Who cares, as long as the customer pays?

But an official banquet is tricky. Normally the man is seated left from the woman and if he helps her to sit down with her "complex" evening-gown, then she has to enter the chair logically from the right, since the man is standing left, manipulating the chair.

So, the Armed Forces... Mainly only men I assume and the women not in evening-gowns? No need to help... what could be an explanation...

Disclaimer: I am from Germany and have absolutely no idea about Commonwealth Armed Forces etiquette!
 
Can any one throw some light on seating etiquette at Banquets/State dinners. Downton Abbey table manners stipulate to enter and leave from the right of the chair. Hoever commonwealth defence forces which carry the British legacy of life style and dinning teach the soldiers and officers to enter from the left side of the chair and leave from the right. Armies in USA, Canada and India still follow this rule religiously. What I want to know is what’s the rule at the Buckingham Palace. I saw the Queen entering from the right of thr chair in dinner with Army in 1956 but from the left of the chair in recent state dinners. The guest on the two long tables on right and left of the table were doing it differently. The ones in left side were entering from the left of the chairs and the ones on the right table were entering from thr right side. I just wonder what’s the protocol guests have to follow.




I have no idea, but the videos below of the recent Spanish and Dutch state visits show how they did it.




 
Can any one throw some light on seating etiquette at Banquets/State dinners. Downton Abbey table manners stipulate to enter and leave from the right of the chair. Hoever commonwealth defence forces which carry the British legacy of life style and dinning teach the soldiers and officers to enter from the left side of the chair and leave from the right. Armies in USA, Canada and India still follow this rule religiously. What I want to know is what’s the rule at the Buckingham Palace. I saw the Queen entering from the right of thr chair in dinner with Army in 1956 but from the left of the chair in recent state dinners. The guest on the two long tables on right and left of the table were doing it differently. The ones in left side were entering from the left of the chairs and the ones on the right table were entering from thr right side. I just wonder what’s the protocol guests have to follow.

"usually" one enters from the right, but a banquette has its own rules as the space is sometimes rrrreally narrow plus it depends on the provided service.
as the table partner is on the left side the ladies enter from the right. goes back to some very old rules set concerning religious traditions, when the "right" /correct/good hand was the right, provided to make the cross.....
still done in monasteries everyhwere and later adapted from nobility.
 
I'm looking for some help with a question about seating plans. I know what the rules are for how to seat people at a dinner in a private residence, where the host and hostess take the chairs at each end.

I'm sure I read years ago that if the monarch is one of the guests, protocol says they should be seated at the head of the table, not in the guest of honour position to the right. I recall the explanation being that the monarch is deemed to be the 'owner' of all houses in the land, or something along those lines - I don't remember the precise wording.

I haven't been able to find backup for this anywhere online. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If and when the Queen attends a private dinner at someone's house, where would she be seated at the table? Where would the host then sit?

I hope I'm asking this in the right thread, and many thanks in advance for assistance!
 
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I'm looking for some help with a question about seating plans. I know what the rules are for how to seat people at a dinner in a private residence, where the host and hostess take the chairs at each end.

I'm sure I read years ago that if the monarch is one of the guests, protocol says they should be seated at the head of the table, not in the guest of honour position to the right. I recall the explanation being that the monarch is deemed to be the 'owner' of all houses in the land, or something along those lines - I don't remember the precise wording.

I haven't been able to find backup for this anywhere online. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If and when the Queen attends a private dinner at someone's house, where would she be seated at the table? Where would the host then sit?

I hope I'm asking this in the right thread, and many thanks in advance for assistance!

We tend to follow a variation of the more traditonal seating plan, following something I read that the Queen follows for private dinners. The host sits, not at the head of the table, but in the middle, allowing the host to be best placed to have a conversation with as many guests as possible. This has worked well for us for many years.
 
The French court must have been a nightmare for those non French Princesses who married into the French royal family and unaccustomed to the stringent etiquette Rules.
 
I don’t know if I am appropriate to ask this question here, it’s about military salute.

I would like to ask, if like Prince William, he’s just a Squadron Leader in The RAF, he went to visit and inspect the RAF College Cranwell on behalf of The Queen, the one who welcomed him, like The Commandant, is an Air Commodore(outrank PW), would the Commandant, as Air Commodore, need to salute to PW, who’s lower rank than her?
 
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I don’t know if I am appropriate to ask this question here, it’s about military salute.

I would like to ask, if like Prince William, he’s just a Squadron Leader in The RAF, he went to visit and inspect the RAF College Cranwell on behalf of The Queen, the one who welcomed him, like The Commandant, is an Air Commodore(higher ranks than PW), would the Commandant, as Air Commodore, need to salute to PW, who’s lower rank than her?

Great question. William does not only hold a rank based on his actual military career but also is honorary colonel since 2012; even though that is in a different branch of the Army (the Irish Guards) I do think it counts for all the armed forces, so he is higher rank. (Next to being the second highest man in the country in terms of precedence (at least in practice; formally he is fourth - after his father and uncles)).
 
Great question. William does not only hold a rank based on his actual military career but also is honorary colonel since 2012; even though that is in a different branch of the Army (the Irish Guards) I do think it counts for all the armed forces, so he is higher rank. (Next to being the second highest man in the country in terms of precedence (at least in practice; formally he is fourth - after his father and uncles)).


True, he is fourth in the male order of precedence, but I think the official precedence is ignored most of the time. Williiam always walks and is seated ahead of his uncles in state dinners for example.
 
Great question. William does not only hold a rank based on his actual military career but also is honorary colonel since 2012; even though that is in a different branch of the Army (the Irish Guards) I do think it counts for all the armed forces, so he is higher rank. (Next to being the second highest man in the country in terms of precedence (at least in practice; formally he is fourth - after his father and uncles)).

Yes I do aware of that. So those Armed Forces officers, no matter it’s Navy Air Forces or Army, who’s de facto out rank him(like a General)need to salute to William when they welcomed William?
 
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When William visits a military base (also in uniform) in an official capacity, he is the official representative of the Monarch and outranks everybody else.
And as such he is saluted - irrespective of his own rank.
And he is of course very high in the line of succession, that alone means he outranks everybody else but those within the BRF who have a higher rank. I.e. QEII herself and Prince Charles.
(In other monarchies, the wife to Prince Charles, Camilla, would outrank William as well. But that's not how it's done in the BRF.)

However, if William arrives at a base in a military function, then it's William who salutes his superiors.
That's William the officer and not William the royal.
 
When William visits a military base (also in uniform) in an official capacity, he is the official representative of the Monarch and outranks everybody else.
And as such he is saluted - irrespective of his own rank.
And he is of course very high in the line of succession, that alone means he outranks everybody else but those within the BRF who have a higher rank. I.e. QEII herself and Prince Charles.
(In other monarchies, the wife to Prince Charles, Camilla, would outrank William as well. But that's not how it's done in the BRF.)

However, if William arrives at a base in a military function, then it's William who salutes his superiors.
That's William the officer and not William the royal.

Thanks for that!
 
I don't really understand the rules of use of the black mantilla, for women not very closed to the deceased. Pcs Caroline wore one, but queen Sofia didn't cover her head. I noticed that most of the ladies had not had covered (hat or mantilla) does anyone know the protocol for this.
I remember on late Prince Rainier funeral both his daughters were wearing long heavy mantillas covering also shoulders. But yesterday princess Tatiana was uncovered.

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