Royal Protocol and Etiquette - Page 8

Von · #**141** 07-20-2010, 08:47 AM

So how do nobles/royals employ their titles? I'm really more interested in ranks below King/Queen or Prince/Princess.

I've seen "The Prince/Princess of X Foundation" which I think is a good idea to get attention to their charity. But what about more day-to-day activities? Do nobles (counts or barons) use their title on stationery? I've seen monograms for monarchs but do lesser ranked nobles have those? How would an invitation go out?

I think royalty/nobility is something special that should be admired (assuming any nobles in question live up to high standard) and I'm just wondering how can it be promoted in subtle ways in everyday life without coming across as crass like making a dinner/hotel reservation under the title just to receive special attention.

The world is becoming more casual so there should be little ways of regularly promoting nobility since the big formal events (state dinners, weddings, etc.) aren't as frequent and are not accessible to the vast majority.

Looking for creative ideas...

Scotslass · #**142** 10-31-2010, 09:13 AM

Hello. I hope this is the correct place to put this.

My 6 year old has developed a real fascination with royalty and keeps asking questions that I do not know the answers too!

His latest is about the fiancé/fiancée of a royal and their place at a royal event such as a funeral or wedding.

Would they be sat with/next to their other half or would they be the same as a girlfriend and sat elsewhere?

Thank you.

Lumutqueen · #**143** 10-31-2010, 10:54 AM

Well when Princess Victoria got married in June, Prince Alberts then girlfriend sat near royalty rather than away.
However this could be because Victoria knew of Alberts impending engagement.

Scotslass · #**144** 10-31-2010, 11:04 AM

Thank you. So it probably depends on the hosts of the event and the couple really?

He has been reading about Prince Charles' trip to the funeral of Pope John Paul II. I think that started him pondering about what would have happened had the death been someone in the BRF and it warranting the postponement of his wedding and the placement of his fiancé during such funeral.

I have no idea where he gets the interest from, but he's so enthusiastic it's lovely to see!

Lumutqueen · #**145** 10-31-2010, 11:25 AM

Yes it does depend on the couple.
Letizia Ortiz was engaged to Prince Felipe of Spain at the time of Prince Frederik of Denmarks wedding and they sat together.
Camilla didn't attend the funeral of Pope John Paul II. Their was postponed a day because of his death.

Scotslass · #**146** 10-31-2010, 12:52 PM

Thanks Lumutqueen.

He was thinking about if they'd had to postpone their wedding for a while I think.

Apparently royal protocol is "intriguing" - I didn't know he knew words like protocol and intriguing at 6

He thanks you both for your answers.

Lumutqueen · #**147** 10-31-2010, 12:56 PM

Charles and Camilla postponed the wedding for a day, it was originally planned for the 8th April to avoid The Grand National on the 9th. However when Pope John Paul's funeral was planned for the 8th, they moved it so that Charles could attend the service.
This put HM in a bit of a pickle, go to the service or watch the Grand National.

I'm happy to help, i've had an interest in royalty since I was 6 as well.

Scotslass · #**148** 10-31-2010, 08:04 PM

Thanks Lumutqueen.

He's wanting to know what would have happened in the following scenario if anyone can tell me?

If rather than Pope John Paul passing away it had been a member of the BRF warranting a royal funeral would it be likely that the wedding (or any wedding in this kind of circumstances) would have been postponed for a while - months perhaps?

If that was the case would the fiancé/fiancée most likely have been treated as a wife or husband because the wedding was only postponed because of such an event?

I have told him I'm not sure that there would be set rules for such an occasion, but he says there are royal rules for everything lol.

Maura724 · #**149** 10-31-2010, 10:24 PM

Your little boy sounds very precocious! He's right that there are rules for everything, although I doubt anyone knows all of them unless they work at the Palace, LOL.

If a British royal died right before a British royal wedding, the wedding would most definitely be postponed for a significant amount of time, at least a month. The exact time would depend on whether the deceased was someone like the Queen or the Duke of Edinburgh or Prince Charles, versus someone further down the line like Prince Edward or one of Princess Anne's children. Royal courts generally observe a period of mourning after a death in the Royal House, during which there are no huge celebrations (i.e. weddings).

I think the fiance(e) would be treated as a spouse whether or not there was a postponed wedding. Generally royal fiance(e)s are treated as spouses in most cases, especially in terms of seating at weddings/funerals/etc. Once you become engaged to a royal, you're "official." At this point, you start participating in some engagements with the royal you're planning to marry, you attend events involving the whole royal family, and you sit with the royals at weddings and funerals.

For example:
As Lumutqueen said, Letizia Ortiz sat with her fiance Prince Felipe of Spain at the Danish royal wedding in May 04.
Henri de Monpezat sat with his fiancee Crown Princess Margrethe of Denmark at a Dutch royal wedding in Jan 67.
Daniel Westling would have attended the Nobel Prize events with the Swedish royals last December when he and Crown Princess Victoria were engaged, had it not been for his recent surgery.
Sonja Haraldsen stood on the Palace balcony with the King and her fiance Crown Prince Harald of Norway during the National Day celebrations in May 68, as did Mette-Marit Tjessem-Hoiby during her engagement to Crown Prince Haakon in May 01.

Lumutqueen · #**150** 11-01-2010, 04:27 AM

A wedding would have been postponed, for a while if a member of the BRF passed away, unless it was the express wishes of the deceased that the wedding go ahead. Like when Queen Mary passed, she insisted the coronation happen.

There aren't royal rules for everything,

And Maura724, not every fiancee gets treated as an "official" member. When Princess Mary became engaged to Prince Frederik she didn't attend the New Years Court celebrations because she wasn't considered "official". All depends on the family.

Sternchen · #**151** 11-01-2010, 07:49 AM

She was considered official enough to be included in the statevisit from Luxembourg :) I think it might have been another reason that she didn't take part in the NYC :)

Lumutqueen · #**152** 11-01-2010, 08:00 AM

Well reading back over the thread, posters seem to think it was because she wasn't "officially" a member. However her sisters wedding was near to the NYC, so I can imagine she was spennding her last new year in Oz.

Vecchiolarry · #**153** 11-01-2010, 11:37 AM

Hi Scotslass,

Your son sounds very intelligent...

He may be interested in this:
In Russia 1894, when Czar Alexander III died, there were elaborate funeral ceremonies befitting a deceased monarch.
His son's (Nicholas II) fiance, Alix of Hesse, was treated with full honours as befitting a consort.
Bereavement was suspended for a day, a week after the funeral for the wedding of Nicholas and Alix (now Alexandra Feodorovna). It was a scaled down wedding ceremony and the bride was ever after referred to as "The Funeral Bride" and comments like: "She wed following a coffin"...

Larry

Scotslass · #**154** 11-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Thank you very much.

Thank you all. I'm not sure he's precocious, he just tends to get very "into" subjects and wants to know everything about it yesterday! His favoured phrase is "right, thank you......now what would happen if x happened instead of y?"

Thank you Larry - that is bound to interest him and will perhaps remove Prince Charles' marriage from top spot for a while.

**Stefan** · #**155** 11-02-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

...not every fiancee gets treated as an "official" member. When Princess Mary became engaged to Prince Frederik she didn't attend the New Years Court celebrations because she wasn't considered "official". All depends on the family.

And Máxima didn't attend Prinsjesdag in 2000 but watched the procession from a Window but in all other Events she was included.

kbk · #**156** 11-20-2010, 04:50 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqrpL...layer_embedded

I am wondering about what I saw in this video. Former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski is sharing a hug with Juan Carlos I of Spain. As he was the President, he was of equal rank with the King and as a former President he remains his VIP status, but he is no longer of eqaul rank. What's more, I thought only royal relatives can hug each other and kiss each other cheaks when welcoming, but not a King and a former President...

missmaggy · #**157** 11-27-2010, 04:21 PM

No one answered #142 above: I imagine *real* nobles with titles use these titles quite subtly--it would be seen as a crest on note paper or on a door or something like that. They wouldn't write it out when they, for example, signed credit card slips and they wouldn't go around correcting people as in "No, it's not Mr Cavendish, I'm a Duke, actually, you're supposed to call me 'Your Grace'". That would be undignified and would seem like the speaker was insecure and defensive. Real nobles probably have too much self-confidence and are secure enough in their own identity to need to proclaim their title all the time.

Lady Deborah · #**158** 12-11-2010, 11:52 PM

Hello all I'm new here just setting up. I did happen to see Miss Maggys comment about post 142.
Actually you are half right , and please understand this is a subjective topic.
I can't find the original post but depending on circumstances a titled person may correct someone who addresses them as 'mr' or 'ms' or whatever.
You can do it very quietly and nicely but my rule of thumb is to do it only if I anticipate an ongoing acquaintance with the person. In this case one presumes they would want to be correct.
Also, I find that in the UK and on the continent people take to this more than they do in the US where titles aren't used.
I hope this helps!

Danishla · #**159** 12-12-2010, 12:04 AM

I just read that the protocol for the Spanish monarchy to meet with the Pope requires that the Queen can only be dressed in white (if she chooses), but all other royal women (princess, infantas) should wear black including the long spanish head covering "mantilla". where is the origin of this tradition, does anybody know?

Warren · #**160** 12-12-2010, 07:13 AM

This tradition is discussed in the Royals Visiting the Pope thread.