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  #321  
Old 08-20-2018, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I always say that a révérence or a bow are optional and never an obligation. At the same time such acts have nothing to do with "who is higher in the pecking order". It is just an oldfashioned way of greeting someone.

This weekend saw Frau Karin Kneissl, the Austrian Minister of Foreign Affairs, making a Ye Olde Fashioned Habsburg Era révérence to a well-known Russian gentleman: picture.

At the same time this shows that making révérences or bows were not at all restricted to royals. Until roughly the 1960's the local nobleman could expect the lifting of hats, nods with the head and ladies making a knick.
Considering that the “ well-known Russian gentleman” in question behaves and is treated like a Tsar in his own country, the Austrian minister’s reverence is not that surprising !
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  #322  
Old 08-20-2018, 07:18 AM
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It would be interesting if the Austrians would ask the Habsburgs to return.


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  #323  
Old 08-20-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
It would be interesting if the Austrians would ask the Habsburgs to return.


LaRae



That is most unlikely in Austria, and less unlikely in Hungary. Of course the Austrians acknowledge the illustrious history of the Habsburgers and they are met with politesse and esteem, which we could witness at the funerals for Empress Zita and Archduke Otto.

But alike with what we saw in Romania, at the funeral of King Michael: being held in esteem, or being popular even, does not necessarily translate in a wish for a restoration.

Having said that: Frau Kneissl is from the most nationalistic party of Austria. One would think the FPÖ probably has a fling to the days of the kaiserliche und königliche Monarchie but even that party seems to have zero desire for it.
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  #324  
Old 08-20-2018, 10:57 AM
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Agree
The last Habsbourg official funerals were Archduke Otto's. The President of Austria was there and for the very last time in the Cathedral we heard the Kaiser Huymn.
The actual head Karl is a marionette.
His Brother tried to be popular in Hungary but failed.
Since years some nostalgics are asking a Beatification of the last Empress Zita. But no success.
The Beatification of the last Emperor Karl was a personal will of Pope jean Paul II
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  #325  
Old 08-20-2018, 01:45 PM
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Her (Zita's) cause for beatification has been opened though..she is currently called a servant of God.


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  #326  
Old 10-08-2018, 08:27 AM
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...nd-Sussex.html

This whole "breaks protocol" lie needs to stop. What is it these days with saying untruths flat out that everyone seems to be doing?
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  #327  
Old 10-08-2018, 12:54 PM
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I'm in agreement with you. It seems that every time a royal exhibits being human, its breaking protocol. If every royal stuck to a strict protocol of behavior every second they're in public, they'd be accused of being robotic. Go figure.
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  #328  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
This whole "breaks protocol" lie needs to stop. What is it these days with saying untruths flat out that everyone seems to be doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm in agreement with you. It seems that every time a royal exhibits being human, its breaking protocol. If every royal stuck to a strict protocol of behavior every second they're in public, they'd be accused of being robotic. Go figure.
I have to agree that the continual harping about 'breaking protocol', 'breaking tradition' or breaking rules has now become just plain tedious if, for no other reason than the "reporter" invariably gets it wrong.

Meghan not wearing hosiery when with the Queen would be bad manners and show a disrespect for her because that is a "standard" that HM was raised with and maintains to this day, therefore, it is a no-brainer she expects her family to wear it in her presence. I am certain she has never said anything about Meghan's general habit of not wearing hosiery breaking the rules0 or she would be wearing them religiously. I expect to see Meghan wearing hosiery every time I see her wearing a hat!

As to Harry and Meghan holding hands PDA? It gives me a bit of a giggle when I hear or read about Harry and Meghan holding hands, putting a hand in the centre of each other's backs or gently rubbing an arm or hand. The breathless gasps of faux horror or righteous outrage are extremely entertaining. Anyone would think they were clasped in a passionate embrace of the kind that is "R" rated!

Now to the one aspect that does irritate me, namely breaking protocol. When a car pulls up to the red carpet, the senior guest (Harry) should be on the right and their partner gets out on the left (Meghan). Yes folks, the lady gets out of the car and walks around to join her husband! This is not a matter of ladies first but rather Harry (senior royal) goes first and Meghan (partner) comes behind them and follows along the reception line. Everything goes like clockwork and Harry can introduce Meghan to someone special or some such, however much as I adore watching this couple this 'Protocol' is the one thing that makes me cringe.

It makes things awkward with Harry and Meghan going backwards and forwards around each other, worse still, it leads to the total collapse of the reception line and the organisers have lost complete control. The person in charge of greeting them and introducing them along the reception line watches in horror as VIP's guests get missed and it is all just messy. This is the one thing Meghan does that makes me want to pull my hair out. She has a little handshake here and then darts over the other side and repeats . . . just like they are doing a walkabout and Harry needs a darned good clip around the ear or kick in the pants for not sorting this out from the very beginning.
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  #329  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I have to agree that the continual harping about 'breaking protocol', 'breaking tradition' or breaking rules has now become just plain tedious if, for no other reason than the "reporter" invariably gets it wrong.

Meghan not wearing hosiery when with the Queen would be bad manners and show a disrespect for her because that is a "standard" that HM was raised with and maintains to this day, therefore, it is a no-brainer she expects her family to wear it in her presence. I am certain she has never said anything about Meghan's general habit of not wearing hosiery breaking the rules0 or she would be wearing them religiously. I expect to see Meghan wearing hosiery every time I see her wearing a hat!

As to Harry and Meghan holding hands PDA? It gives me a bit of a giggle when I hear or read about Harry and Meghan holding hands, putting a hand in the centre of each other's backs or gently rubbing an arm or hand. The breathless gasps of faux horror or righteous outrage are extremely entertaining. Anyone would think they were clasped in a passionate embrace of the kind that is "R" rated!

Now to the one aspect that does irritate me, namely breaking protocol. When a car pulls up to the red carpet, the senior guest (Harry) should be on the right and their partner gets out on the left (Meghan). Yes folks, the lady gets out of the car and walks around to join her husband! This is not a matter of ladies first but rather Harry (senior royal) goes first and Meghan (partner) comes behind them and follows along the reception line. Everything goes like clockwork and Harry can introduce Meghan to someone special or some such, however much as I adore watching this couple this 'Protocol' is the one thing that makes me cringe.

It makes things awkward with Harry and Meghan going backwards and forwards around each other, worse still, it leads to the total collapse of the reception line and the organisers have lost complete control. The person in charge of greeting them and introducing them along the reception line watches in horror as VIP's guests get missed and it is all just messy. This is the one thing Meghan does that makes me want to pull my hair out. She has a little handshake here and then darts over the other side and repeats . . . just like they are doing a walkabout and Harry needs a darned good clip around the ear or kick in the pants for not sorting this out from the very beginning.
I find Meghan's technique is when introducing herself to a small group of people is usually she greets everyone first in the group and then initiates a groups conversation with everyone that allows everyone in the conversation to jump in.

My theory on why Meghan is usually led to go first where there is a line up of people to meet is that it helps to hurry her along knowing that Harry is right behind her and sometimes once they are both done greeting everyone once again start the group conversation format. We usually she her doing down the line and greeting people after Harry at more traditional events like the services at Westminster, there she usually ends up talked to everyone for a bit too long and Harry has to step in and remind her they have to get going. The most obvious example of this was the clip at the end of the Anzac service where Meghan was left talking to a group while William and Harry waited off to the side for her to finish before Harry had to cut in so they could get in line to exit the Abbey.
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  #330  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:25 PM
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^Indeed. A few royal reporters have discussed that Meghan takes her time and really chats with people. Same with Kate. Whereas their old hand husbands tend to do more brief interactions to better work the crowd although Harry is known to really get into walkabouts and take longer than other royals. So you KNOW Meghan is one chatty girl if she is doing so more than Harry!

Omid and Emily discussed that Meghan hates to disappoint people and will really try her hardest to meet everyone. It is sweet and I hope she never loses that drive!

I have noticed that formal welcomes can look a bit messy though simply because Harry often pushes Meghan first and then they do a side step a bit which throws off the dignitaries and such as MARG said. They will get it smoothed out though.
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  #331  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:45 PM
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I certainly hope so as in the case of family gatherings the BRF arrive in reverse order of precedence and leave in order of precedence. Simply stated, she's holding up the line!

Timing matters and when arriving at church you don't hold up the Queen. At other events where they are the guests, their hosts may have worked weeks or even months to ensure that everything goes right and Harry messing them about is rude. Fluttering all over the show can come after the formal reception line.
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  #332  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:13 PM
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Meghan is still smoothing this aspect out for sure
For example during her first few walk abouts she used to have very long conversations with everyone to the extent that bystanders can film her close to 10 minutes answering and asking questions so the entire video looked like an on camera interview.

Now she is generally much quicker on walk abouts and tried to run around and greet as many people as possible instead of trying to have a conversation with everyone.

I blame this a bit more on Harry trying to be chivalrous but it often ends up looking awkward on camera. Meghan usually does try to signal Harry to go first only for him to signal her to go before him we've watched this exchange happen innumerable times in the past few months. This results in Meghan going first when it should be Harry and Meghan trying to get Harry's attention so he can go first. It looks awkward and wastes tiny moments of time.

It's a minor issue that they need to smoothen out but I am sure they will stick to the more traditional set up for more formal occasions.

Just like the couple usually doesn't tend to do the pair of 2 set up for most engagements and usually stick to one guide or 2 guides flanking them on each side.

They just need to nail down when exactly it's better to go with the traditional set up and when to go with their own set up.
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  #333  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fros View Post
I blame this a bit more on Harry trying to be chivalrous but it often ends up looking awkward on camera. Meghan usually does try to signal Harry to go first only for him to signal her to go before him we've watched this exchange happen innumerable times in the past few months. This results in Meghan going first when it should be Harry and Meghan trying to get Harry's attention so he can go first. It looks awkward and wastes tiny moments of time.

It's a minor issue that they need to smoothen out but I am sure they will stick to the more traditional set up for more formal occasions.
Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.
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  #334  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:57 PM
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Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.
Dublin was actually what came to mind when I was thinking about this. When they were with the Taoiseach and entering into the room to sign the vistors book. Just before they entered you can tell there was some hold up at the door way where Harry, Meghan and the Taoiseach were trying to signal to each other to go in first (this wasn't fully visible on camera but you could see some of the movements through the door-frame).

In the end Meghan entered the room first but stopped immediately and motioned for Harry to go ahead so that he would be the one to sign the visitors book first. Just tiny awkward moments nothing major but needs to be smoothed out overall.
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  #335  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:07 AM
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Interesting. I saw Meghan made sure he signed the book 1st, but I missed the fumbling at the door. Clearly Harry’s not all that pressed about the protocol. Seems silly that often Meghan is the one trying to ensure they follow it, but she catches all the heat when they don’t.
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  #336  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:27 AM
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It seems that Harry does the ladies first unless there is a reason why it has to be done otherwise (ie. formal event with other members of the BRF, official photos, etc.). I guess being that Ireland isn't a monarchy, the royal seniority protocol was slightly relaxed. But yes, I do agree that Meghan is the one that's trying to follow protocol as much as possible, yet gets blamed for when Harry lets her go in first (part of a much bigger conversation, but not for here) just like the break protocol stories that came out after Nottingham about her walking in front of him. Reality is, for engagements like the ones they did that day, other royals don't follow this protocol that strictly either. But of course, the underlining theme was the woman didn't know her place. I think some of us on here even pointed out back then that he put his hand on her back and gestured for her to walk in front of him after the articles came out.
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  #337  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:19 AM
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Totally agree with you. Harry is the one driving this behavior and if there’s a change to be made it needs to come from him. I think Dublin is indicative of what we’ll see on this tour. Formal meetings with diplomats and politicians will have Harry in the lead. But Harry will gesture Meghan forward for the more informal engagements with youth groups, zoos, etc. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. If it was, I assume Samantha Cohen would’ve nipped it in the bud already.
Walkabouts are fair game and the only problem Samantha and their Security have is keeping up with them. Actually, I have visions on an RPO gritting his teeth every time Harry and Meghan stretch way over the barriers to touch hands.

But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
It seems that Harry does the ladies first unless there is a reason why it has to be done otherwise (ie. formal event with other members of the BRF, official photos, etc.). I guess being that Ireland isn't a monarchy, the royal seniority protocol was slightly relaxed. But yes, I do agree that Meghan is the one that's trying to follow protocol as much as possible, yet gets blamed for when Harry lets her go in first (part of a much bigger conversation, but not for here) just like the break protocol stories that came out after Nottingham about her walking in front of him. Reality is, for engagements like the ones they did that day, other royals don't follow this protocol that strictly either. But of course, the underlining theme was the woman didn't know her place. I think some of us on here even pointed out back then that he put his hand on her back and gestured for her to walk in front of him after the articles came out.
No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.
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  #338  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:02 AM
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But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.
The only thing I’ve noticed in the reception line is that sometimes they are so close, it ends up being one person doing introductions rather than two at less formal events. Which, if that’s how they usually do it, I don’t see a problem. That’s just how this couple work, and if you are organizing an event for them, it’s well known this is something that might happen at this point.

And I wasn’t talking about the car door. Rather how they walk in. But as for the car door, it’s not always one particular side that closest. The only time I remember was Nottingham. Meghan did arrive and leave on the side the further away from the entrance/reception line even though the sides changed. Heck, when they arrived at The Academy, Harry straight up went to other side and walked with her rather than just keep walking along the SUV towards the building. Now back to what my post was about. The issue is Meghan walking in front of Harry and how that comes about and how that was reported as who broke protocol. It was absolutely about gender and blaming Meghan for breaking protocol by walking in front of Harry when Harry had his hand on her back and gestured for to walk ahead of him.
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  #339  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Walkabouts are fair game and the only problem Samantha and their Security have is keeping up with them. Actually, I have visions on an RPO gritting his teeth every time Harry and Meghan stretch way over the barriers to touch hands.

But Reception lines of any kind are different. Next time you see Harry and Meghan "doing their own thing" instead of going up the reception line whether it be three or ten people, take a look at the faces of the people that were waiting and the organisers. It is just rude.

No, it is not a gender issue. Philip and Elizabeth did this, Prince Henrik and Margrethe did this, and in Sweden when the car pulls up its Victoria on the right and Daniel on the left walking the Reception line. Actually, I think that William and Catherine play by the rules on this as well.
I think Jacqui meant that the media harping about protocol is a gender thing not the protocol itself. The media never reports that Harry will literally push Meghan in front of him to be greeted first or purposely hang back so she is greeted first. He is pretty obvious about it so it’s not like the media can’t have noticed.

Same with the PDA. Harry initiatives just as much as Meghan but it’s always “Meghan CLINGS to Harry.”
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  #340  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:15 AM
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True and this is the type of tabloid headline that brings in the clicks and critics!!!
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Same with the PDA. Harry initiatives just as much as Meghan but it’s always “Meghan CLINGS to Harry.”
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