Royal Protocol and Etiquette

[royalistbert]

I think there is rule in BRF that young royals are not addressed by their titles until they reach the age of 18.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

It's been on my mind for a while... George or Estelle called 'your royal highness' by a 60 year old official sounds archaic but surely 12 year old Elizabeth of Belgium is not called 'lizzie' or 'kid' by the maids either!

Perhaps its "Miss Elizabeth"? Now I'm really wondering... thanks for starting the thread!

[Iluvbertie]

Correct. The Queen made it clear that Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward weren't to be addressed by anything other than their names until they were 18 and that carried into the next generation.

As for other royal families I have read somewhere that Frederick and Joachin insist that their children are called 'Prince xxx' or 'Princess yyy' at school but I can't find that reference now - so maybe I didn't read it on the internet anyway.

I think it is definitely a royal family by royal family thing.

[QueenJen]

I'm so glad you though of this, Amaryllus! I am very interested in the responses!

[amaryllus]

I hope and believe the current batch of royal children are taught that yes, your a prince(cess) and you'll be monarch one day and that makes you different....but right now your still a child who does not need to be putting on airs and expecting special treatment.

All the parents pretty good in that regard at least as far as we know.

[Muhler]

Well, here in DK the children will be addressed with informal you and sometimes with title by staff members.

As the adults themselves are addressed with informal you by those of the staff who work closest with them. i.e. secretaries, chief of courts and so on (except when the show is on of course) it is out of the question that staff would adress the children with formal you.
It's normal that the children are addressed alternatively with their name and title or just their name by some journalists when they are giving the little "interviews". But that's when the show is on. Example: "Prince Christian, was it fun to..."? The very same journalist may later, now that the formality is over, ask another question like this: "Christian, what do you think about..."?

That the children should be addressed in school as say "prince Christian" is nonsense. They are listed as "prince Christian" and so on.

In other words: The most formal thing the children will experience is to be addressed as "Prince Christian".
When they meet a cleaner, driver, cook whatever in the morning, that person may initially address them with a "Hi, Prince Christian" and then only "Christan" and that will especially apply to the older children, who can understand what a prince/ss really is.

I don't thnk the guards are required to present arms either should a royal child run past.
QMII and her sisters when they were children, had an idea about walking countless times past guards who were obliged to present arms. That little joke was ended with an admonishment and an order to the guards about not having to present arms when the girls walked by. That must have been in the early 1950's, so I doubt very much the guards do it now.

The thing about addressing children with HKH's, bow/curtsey to them and saying "sir" to small children, that I believe is Hollywood fiction. Must modern royal houses are much more informal.

[chelly]

Wasn't there a story about prince William running past the guards and they always had to salute. That he did it so much that he was given a lecture by Diana? Or is it one of those myths that seem to become fact?

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by chelly

Wasn't there a story about prince William running past the guards and they always had to salute. That he did it so much that he was given a lecture by Diana? Or is it one of those myths that seem to become fact?

Actually it was Princess Anne. Her two children found it extremely funny to walk past the guards when they realized they would be saluted. After doing this little stunt for over an hour they ran back to their mother laughing about it. Princess Anne immediately grabbed both of them and made them apologize to the guard, after which they were punished. Both Zara and Peter told this story in an interview they had about their mother not too long ago.

[Molly2101]

That is quite amusing from Peter and Zara. I did not realise that non "HRH's" still had to receive a salute. Lady Louise receives a salute as well as a guard from Windsor castle said on his Twitter that she kept riding past on her pony and he had to keep saluting her.

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Molly2101

That is quite amusing from Peter and Zara. I did not realise that non "HRH's" still had to receive a salute. Lady Louise receives a salute as well as a guard from Windsor castle said on his Twitter that she kept riding past on her pony and he had to keep saluting her.

Here is a version of the Peter/Zara story: A case of guarded language at Balmoral - Telegraph

[Muhler]

That's probably been a common prank among royal children for generations.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

Here is a version of the Peter/Zara story: A case of guarded language at Balmoral - Telegraph

Anne also enjoyed that game when she was younger. Charles would avoid the guards, but his sister liked watching them salute over and over.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Specifically, The ten and under set....bearing in mind this is 2014 not 1814, How does the maid or gardener address a 5 year old heir or heiress? Even in the more liberal Royal families is a certain amount of deference expected or is informality encouraged now?

For the older children like the Duchess of Brabant or Catherina Amalia, who know who they are, so to speak, do you think they would be unsettled by a rude or overly close staff member?

For all staff it is just Elisabeth or Amalia until a certain age is reached and depending on how close the staff is to them. Then it becomes mevrouw (Dutch) or madame (French). I can imagine that someone who has said Amalia for 18 years, will continue to do so unless there is a formal or public situation.

The same with the guards outside. They do not salute to the royal children. On a certain moment there will be a sort of change. After all they are HRH The Duchess of Brabant and HRH The Princess of Orange and will be met with all honours involved with that title. For this moment it would be ridiculous to click-clack boots, to salute, to bow or to say Royal Highness to a kid.

Princess Beatrix has been a client to couturière Theresia Vreugdenhil for more than 40 years. Mrs Vreugdenhil has seen her royal client in her undergarments, so to say. In an interview Mrs Vreugdenhil made clear it was always mevrouw ('Madam') before and after. There was a personal bond indeed but it started as a business relationship and her client was The Queen. According Mrs Vreugdenhil it was most natural to say mevrouw and first name-calling was never an option.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Australian prime minister Tony Abbott accused of breaching royal protocol after he was pictured 'hugging' Prince William | Mail Online

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Australian prime minister Tony Abbott accused of breaching royal protocol after he was pictured 'hugging' Prince William | Mail Online

I have to say that I intensely dislike being touched by people I do not know....actually come to think of it I'm not that keen on being touched by people I do know unless it is an exceptionally brief hug and kiss in greeting or saying goodbye. A female friend of mine has the peculiar and rather annoying habit of linking arms with me when we walk down the street and it makes me feel very uncomfortable indeed.

Apart from the breech in protocol, I do think it rather presumptuous and arrogant to try and lead someone in the right direction as if to say "I want to control where you walk because you are incapable of making the decision yourself and I fear you might wander off".

I remember seeing video footage of Princess Margaret alighting from her car and an official took her by the arm as if to assist her. She yanked her arm away from him and gave him a dreadful look and, frankly, if it had been me, I would have slung my handbag at him and told him to get orff!

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Danishla

I just read that the protocol for the Spanish monarchy to meet with the Pope requires that the Queen can only be dressed in white (if she chooses), but all other royal women (princess, infantas) should wear black including the long spanish head covering "mantilla". where is the origin of this tradition, does anybody know?

The protocol for formal audiences with the Pope and papal coronations/inauguration masses historically required that women wear long black dresses. Certain Catholic queens were specifically exempted from that requirement though and allowed to dress in white in the presence of the Pope. In French, that is called "le privilège du blanc" (or "the privilege of the white").

Queens of former monarchies to whom the privilege of the white extended included the empress of Austria-Hungary and the queens of France, Portugal, Italy, and Bavaria. Nowadays, the privilege applies only to the queens (or former queens) of Spain and Belgium, and to the grand duchess of Luxembourg. I believe that princesses of the House of Savoy (the former royal house of Italy) are still accorded the privilege also, but I'm not sure.

Note though that many women nowadays no longer respect the "black dress rule" when meeting the Pope and, therefore, the significance of the "privilège du blanc" as a special deference to the Catholic monarchies is diminishing. It is particularly noteworthy that Jorge Bergoglio (better known as "Pope Francis") explicitly broke protocol by not requiring Queen Elizabeth II to dress in black in her recent visit to the Vatican. In previous occasions, including in recent meetings with former pope Benedict XVI (Ratzinger), the Queen always wore black.

[carlota]

i was surprised during today's event of the anniversary of the first world war in belgium by the protocol: why did william get to pronounce a speech, together with king Philippe of the begians and not felipe, who outranks him?

[SLV]

I think it is a matter of representing a country and not who exactly does the talking. Belgium and England held speeches, Spain didn't.

[Duc_et_Pair]

The United Kingdom, France and Germany were THE major powers in war, fighting in Flanders and Northern France. There were other frontlines of course, but here it went about the fate of Belgium which was invaded by the Germans on their way to France and where the merciless war in those trenches developed.

The King gave a speech as host, the presidents of France and Germany and the Duke on behalf of their countries. All other countries were lesser players in Flanders and Northern France.

[tiaratop]

I am curious, can anyone tell me why The Duchess of Cambridge was walking behind the lesser royals before or after the Christmas church service today, it seemed odd to me...