Precedence - Who Outranks Who?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

They were seated in the Abbey in the order that Duc indicated: Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, Spain, Norway, and Belgium. The Dutch were apparentely seated according to Princess Beatrix's precedence as Queen, and the Spaniards according to King Juan Carlos' , but the Spaniards still came after the Dutch delegation, which is a bit confusing since Juan Carlos became king earlier than Beatrix. Perhaps, as Duc said, they averaged out the precedences of Beatrix/Willem-Alexander and Juan Carlos/Felipe VI, which is an odd thing to do.

The Grand Duke of Luxembourg and the Sovereign Prince of Monaco were seated after the King of the Belgians, although both became Sovereigns earlier than King Philippe. Apparently they gave precedence to reigning kings over sovereign HRHs or HSHs.

Also, all non-European sovereigns, or their representatives (Japan, Bhutan, Brunei, Malaysia, Qatar, Oman, Lesotho, Morocco, Tonga, etc.) were given lower precedence in the seating than the European royal houses, including non-reigning houses (for example, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, and Serbia).

At the committal service in Windsor, it appears that the order of seating in the row where the Europe monarchs were was, I think, again Denmark, Sweden, Spain and Norway (from right to left); the Belgians did not attend the committal service, nor did the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and the Sovereign Prince of Monaco (I don't know if they were invited or not).

In St George's Chapel the seating was the same:

The Queen of Denmark
The King of Sweden
Queen Silvia of Sweden
The King of the Netherlands
Queen Máxima of the Netherlands
Former Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands
The King of Spain
Queen Sofía of Spain
The King of Norway
Queen Sonja of Norway
Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes
Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09...3601190943.jpg

[Josefine]

thank you do much

Absolutely I am with you on seating.
I always thought that entering in a certain order was also a part of Precedence

Mbruno i red your post again and saw that you talked about entering in church

but the Spaniards still came after the Dutch delegation, which is a bit confusing since Juan Carlos became king earlier than Beatrix. Perhaps, as Duc said, they averaged out the precedences of Beatrix/Willem-Alexander and Juan Carlos/Felipe VI, which is an odd thing to do.

what i saw in the photos https://www.soundhealthandlastingwea...en-at-funeral/
first Dutch delegation then sweden after denmark and then spain. after spain there was belgium

[BearPeanut]

I am American as well, and there is definitely glitz and glamour that came from the Kennedys, but despite what you felt about them politically, they were really a family with very few morals and were pushed by the father to social climb. Do you remember what Joe had done to Rosemary (JFK's sister)? She was a little "slow" mentally, I guess you could say, but not severely mentally disabled. But because sometimes her behaviors were a little unpredictable, Joe Kennedy Sr., was embarrassed and behind his wife's back, had a lobotomy performed on her and "the procedure left her permanently incapacitated and rendered her unable to speak intelligibly." She had to be moved from living at home, to living in a full-time nursing home type facility.

And let's not forget the Keenedy men's interpretation of marriage vows as more of a "suggestion," rather than an actual vow or promise. This family was as far from an American Royal Family that I would ever want to identify with as an American.

[Moonmaiden23]

The Kennedy family is enormous, with several branches ( Shrivers, Lawfords, Smith) The problem with dismissing such a large group of so many people with one brush as having "few morals" is that you forget that this same family gave this country two decorated war heroes, the Peace Corps,the Special Olympics, and Best Buddies.

Who cares who dishonored their marriage vows? Why is that our concern? We don't truly believe that being Royal means being faithful to wedding vows? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Joseph Kennedy, for all his faults, made the disastrous decision to subject poor Rosemary to a lobotomy under the misguided belief that it would help her....not destroy her.

Look at all the large American dynasties like the Bushes, the Roosevelt's and the Rockefellers. Each one has also been referred to as American royalty and each one has some very loud rattling skeletons in their closets.

The Kennedys are simply more glamorous and famous. But no worse than the others.

ETA: Pretty certain this discussion doesn't belong in this thread...

[classyjackie]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

The Kennedy family is enormous, with several branches ( Shrivers, Lawfords, Smith) The problem with dismissing such a large group of so many people with one brush as having "few morals" is that you forget that this same family gave this country two decorated war heroes, the Peace Corps,the Special Olympics, and Best Buddies.

Who cares who dishonored their marriage vows? Why is that our concern? We don't truly believe that being Royal means being faithful to wedding vows? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Joseph Kennedy, for all his faults, made the disastrous decision to subject poor Rosemary to a lobotomy under the misguided belief that it would help her....not destroy her.

Look at all the large American dynasties like the Bushes, the Roosevelt's and the Rockefellers. Each one has also been referred to as American royalty and each one has some very loud rattling skeletons in their closets.

The Kennedys are simply more glamorous and famous. But no worse than the others.

ETA: Pretty certain this discussion doesn't belong in this thread...

Thank you for this. It's weird seeing certain people just get defensive about them being referred as "American Royalty" and act like Royal families having upstanding morals and don't have horrible ancestors.

The Bushes have had affairs, drug problems, lies and etc, yet nobody has a problem with that.

The Roosevelts have had affairs, moral problems, shady money and hell Teddy Roosevelt even tried to put his brother away so he wouldn't ruin his career yet again nobody speaks about those.

Lets not even get started on the Rockefellers.

But its regular the Kennedys who get attacked and you really gotta wonder why.