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  #61  
Old 01-10-2012, 03:18 PM
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The Italian numeration followed that used by the Dukes of Savoy.
Vittorio Amedeo II, Duke of Savoy, became King Vittorio Amedeo II of Sardinia in 1720 when the Kingdom was ceded to the Dukes of Savoy;
King Vittorio Emanuele II of Sardinia became King Vittorio Emanuele II of Italy in 1861 when the Savoy dynasty assumed the new Crown following Italian unification.
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  #62  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:34 PM
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=Warren;1356739]
The Italian numeration followed that used by the Dukes of Savoy.
Vittorio Amedeo II, Duke of Savoy, became King Vittorio Amedeo II of Sardinia in 1720 when the Kingdom was ceded to the Dukes of Savoy;
King Vittorio Emanuele II of Sardinia became King Vittorio Emanuele II of Italy in 1861 when the Savoy dynasty assumed the new Crown following Italian unification.
[/QUOTE]


Thanks warren.I want to add that Umberto I was supposed to be Umberto IV according to Dukes of Savoy numeration but he chose to be called the first as he was the first Umberto of the kingdom of Italy.
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  #63  
Old 01-10-2012, 06:34 PM
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Wikipedia looks correct to me (and detailed in its explanation).

When people misunderstand each other in text, it often helps to put more paragraph breaks in. Some of the misunderstood posts on this thread have used the dreaded "wall of text" format.

King John is another example of a male monarch without a number.
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  #64  
Old 01-13-2012, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
I believe our Swedish king Oscar I was always known as Oscar I after he had become our king, even before his son was known as King Oscar II. But I'm not sure.
Oscar I was not known as Oscar I during his reign, you can check these coins minted during his reign, the inscription says "Oscar Sveriges Norr. Goth. och Vend. Konung" without any numeral. Oscar I

So if Victoria and Daniel have a son and gives him the name Wilhelm, there wouldn't be any numeral in his name when he becomes king as there haven't been any Swedish king named Wilhelm before him.
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  #65  
Old 01-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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Great post, Maude - I guess we have to keep track of this nation by nation. Seems the majority of nations are similar to England...while those more closely connected to the Holy Roman Empire are apt to putting a number when one isn't strictly needed to distinguish the person? I'm sort of guessing what the summary of all this might be.
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  #66  
Old 01-13-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
Oscar I was not known as Oscar I during his reign, you can check these coins minted during his reign, the inscription says "Oscar Sveriges Norr. Goth. och Vend. Konung" without any numeral. Oscar I

So if Victoria and Daniel have a son and gives him the name Wilhelm, there wouldn't be any numeral in his name when he becomes king as there haven't been any Swedish king named Wilhelm before him.
I see. Well, I said I wasn't sure.
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  #67  
Old 09-02-2014, 11:30 PM
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Francis (Francois) I of France issued silver coins bearing the legend FRANCISCVS I DE. GR FRANCORV. REX

There were times when sovereigns had more than one ordinal.
Ferdinand II was King of Aragon from 1479 until 1516. As Ferdinand V he was King of Castile from 1475 to 1504.

Charles I was King of Spain from 1516 until 1556. As Charles V he reigned as Holy Roman Emperor from 1519 to 1556.
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  #68  
Old 04-01-2018, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
There were times when sovereigns had more than one ordinal.
Ferdinand II was King of Aragon from 1479 until 1516. As Ferdinand V he was King of Castile from 1475 to 1504.
The next King of Spain to bear the name Ferdinand called himself Ferdinand VI, following the numbering of the kings of Castile. Why ?
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  #69  
Old 04-01-2018, 09:21 PM
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It seems all Spanish monarchs followed the numbering of the kings of Castile after the death of Ferdinand II/V in 1516.

Philip II (1527-1598) was actually Philip I in Aragon as his grandfather Philip I only ruled Castile.

Alfonso XII (1857-1885) followed the numbering of King Alfonso XI of Castile but was only the sixth Alfonso in Aragon.

I don't why but I suspect it was because Castile and Aragon were still two separate crowns (under one ruler) until they were united after the War of the Spanish Succession & the higher ordinal number was preferred.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:49 PM
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That's a good point. I suppose because the HRE wasn't Spanish it didn't count in terms of the Spanish ordinal - only Castile & Aragon.
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  #71  
Old 04-02-2018, 05:12 PM
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Charles I was King of Spain from 1516 until 1556. As Charles V he reigned as Holy Roman Emperor from 1519 to 1556.
Indeed. That is why the next King of Spain after the Emperor with the name Charles was 'Charles II'.
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  #72  
Old 04-02-2018, 06:11 PM
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He was also Charles II of Sicily and Charles IV of Naples.
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  #73  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:28 PM
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Charles III was King of Spain from 1759 until 1788. He ruled Naples as Charles VII and Sicily as Charles V.
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  #74  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:20 PM
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I have often wondered with the disputed British Queens Matilda and Lady Jane Grey, whether if we ever had a future Queen Matilda or Jane whether they would be known as Matilda/Jane II.
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  #75  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:09 PM
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I have often wondered with the disputed British Queens Matilda and Lady Jane Grey, whether if we ever had a future Queen Matilda or Jane whether they would be known as Matilda/Jane II.

I think that’s ultimately why they remain disputed while Edward V is not. His reign was confirmed retroactively by Edward VI. Matilda and Jane’s reigns have never been confirmed this way, despite Matilda at least having ruled longer.
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  #76  
Old 11-08-2018, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Saz83 View Post
I have often wondered with the disputed British Queens Matilda and Lady Jane Grey, whether if we ever had a future Queen Matilda or Jane whether they would be known as Matilda/Jane II.

Why would she have been Jane II?
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  #77  
Old 11-08-2018, 05:03 PM
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Saz83 is suggesting that a future Quee Jane would be Jane II as there was Lady Jane Grey - the 9 days Queen. If she was actually a Queen she would surely be Jane I.

Matilda is a different case because at her time the title of King/Queen wasn't used until they were crowned and she never was. The best she was was the Lady of the English. She was approaching her coronation when her demands became so harsh that the people of London rose up against her and refused to allow her to be crowned. There was also the small question that there was a living consecrated King who had not abdicated but was simply a prisoner.

I would suspect that due to these controversies neither name would be used again for an heir apparent.
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  #78  
Old 11-08-2018, 07:40 PM
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No doubt there would experts for Queen Matilda or Jane to consult on the matter.
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  #79  
Old 02-04-2021, 09:41 PM
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King William II of England was also de facto Duke of Normandy as William III from 1096 to 1100.
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  #80  
Old 04-07-2021, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Francis (Francois) I of France issued silver coins bearing the legend FRANCISCVS I DE. GR FRANCORV. REX

There were times when sovereigns had more than one ordinal.
Ferdinand II was King of Aragon from 1479 until 1516. As Ferdinand V he was King of Castile from 1475 to 1504.

Prior to 1716, the Crowns of Castile and Aragon were still technically separate, albeit in personal union under the Kings "of the Spains" (in the plural, as they were called at the time).



When a regnal name was previously used both by Kings of Castile and Kings of Aragon, is the highest ordinal between the latter used to start counting the Kings of Spain bearing the same regnal name?



Incidentally, does that also apply to monarchs of United Kingdom with respect to previous kings of England or Scotland? For example, would a future King James of the United Kingdom be numbered James VIII instead of James III (assuming of course Scotland is still part of the UK at that time) ?
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