Orders & Sashes

[GömdNatt]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Swedish "etiquette expert" Magdalena Ribbing complained strongly last year when crown princess Victoria wore at the Nobel Prize ceremony the sash on her bare skin.
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Unfortunately ms Ribbing didn't remember then at all, that HM queen Silvia has worn many times the sash also on her bare shoulder, also at the Nobel Prize ceremonies. And so has princess Madeleine.
Here is only some photos of queen Silvia with her sash on bare shoulder.
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Princess Madeleine
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Obviously Victoria and Madeleine think that if the queen can wear the sash on her bare shoulder, they can too.

I think I recall that last year. Beatrix, Maxima, and even Elizabeth has worn their sash over a bare shoulder, so I don't know if I would consider it protocol.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by GömdNatt

I think I recall that last year. Beatrix, Maxima, and even Elizabeth has worn their sash over a bare shoulder, so I don't know if I would consider it protocol.

Queen Elisabeth in bare shoulders last year?? Are you sure?


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[Curryong]

Gosh, if that's QUEEN Elizabeth, I haven't seen her in sleeveless evening gowns with any sort of low décolletage for about 20 years.

I wish someone had either informed Sofia about her twisted sash or perhaps adjusted it for her.

[GömdNatt]

Originally Posted by JR76

Queen Elisabeth in bare shoulders last year?? Are you sure?


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Good go no. I meant I recall the "etiquette" kerfuffle with Victoria wearing the sash on her bare shoulders.

Elizabeth hasn't done so since at least the 70s, but probably more the 50s and 60s. She wore a lot of strap dresses back then, but that is long ago.

[AdmirerUS]

The idea of continuing a tradition that somehow labels the shoulder flesh of a woman's shoulder as untouchable by an inanimate fabric is silly IMHO.
Traditions that lack sound meaning behind them often fall by the wayside. And I'm all for that.

[Tilia C.]

It seems that Queen Silvia was just following her mother-in-law. Here is Princess Sibylla.
View image: sash sibylla
The pic is a blurry screen shop, but I'm certain that the gown is strapless.

And here Princess Desiree
View image: sash margaretha

So this rule that sashes must not be worn on bare skin seems to be as out-dated as the rule that only married women are allowd to wear tiaras.

edit: And here is the lady who probably never ever in her whole long life has put a foot wrong when it comes to protocol.
Young Queen Elizabeth, and even in an official portrait!
View image: sash QEII

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by Tilia C.

And here Princess Margaretha
View image: sash margaretha

It's princess Désirée, not Margaretha on the photo. The sisters don't look that alike (and the tiara is Désirée's private, she got it before her wedding: PRINSESSORNAS BRÖLLOP 1964 + PRINSESSAN STÅR BRUD 1961 FRI FRAKT! på
https://johanoberg.wordpress.com/201...r-guldbrollop/

[Tilia C.]

Originally Posted by Meraude

It's princess Désirée, not Margaretha on the photo. The sisters don't look that alike (and the tiara is Désirée's private, she got it before her wedding: PRINSESSORNAS BRÖLLOP 1964 + PRINSESSAN STÅR BRUD 1961 FRI FRAKT! på
https://johanoberg.wordpress.com/201...r-guldbrollop/

Oops! Thank you for the correction. I will edit my post above.

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

The idea of continuing a tradition that somehow labels the shoulder flesh of a woman's shoulder as untouchable by an inanimate fabric is silly IMHO.
Traditions that lack sound meaning behind them often fall by the wayside. And I'm all for that.

The tradition to tuck the sash inside the dress when wearing a shoulder-baring dress perhaps has more to do with giving the gentlemen an undisturbed view to admire the decolletage of a beautiful woman, rather than that a woman's bare shoulder should be untouched by a sash.

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Meraude

The tradition to tuck the sash inside the dress when wearing a shoulder-baring dress perhaps has more to do with giving the gentlemen an undisturbed view to admire the decolletage of a beautiful woman, rather than that a woman's bare shoulder should be untouched by a sash.

Well, some of the comments were describing the practice as uncouth. Not as blocking decolletage. And I'm not sure not sure I think a Queen's/Princess' job should be display their cleavage at evening engagements.

I do think some dresses look better with the sash tucked - and that makes sense. Others look just a great with the sash on shoulder. JMO.

[casualfan]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

And I'm not sure not sure I think a Queen's/Princess' job should be display their cleavage at evening engagements.

Interestingly, décolletage has been quite de rigeur for upper class women in evening wear since the Renaissance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Décolletage

I'm not saying this is what should occur even now. I for one have no desire to see a woman's décolletage.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by GömdNatt

I think I recall that last year. Beatrix, Maxima, and even Elizabeth has worn their sash over a bare shoulder, so I don't know if I would consider it protocol.

In the video below from Queen Margrethe's recent 75th birthday dinner, Queen Mathide has her sash tucked while wearing a shoulder baring dress.

https://youtu.be/BNpBuKzK0vU?t=198

[Tilia C.]

Mathilde has worn her sash several times on her bar shoulder, but with this particular dress is just looks great to have the sash tucked in under that wide colar.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Queen Beatrix wearing the Elephant over a bare shoulder

Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Juliana and Princess Beatrix wearing their sashes over a bare shoulder

[Marty91charmed]

Call me mad, but I think that a sash over bare shoulder actually help the body look complete and less "bare"...

[GömdNatt]

Does anybody know when Princess Claire of Belgium received the Order of Leopold? She's only worn it once that I know of, in 2008 for the Hungarian State Visit. She should have worn it for the Finnish State Visit in 2004, Fred's wedding, and Victoria's wedding, but didn't. So did she get it in 2003 when she got married or did she not receive it until later? My assumption is she received it around the time of her wedding, but hates wearing it. lol

[Tilia C.]

Interesting question. At the time of Victoria's wedding she certainly had the order, but chose not to wear it. So it is possible that she already had it at the Finnish SV and the Danish wedding. Maybe she thinks that it spoils the look? (Which is often true, imho.)

[Duc_et_Pair]

The simple answer is: she has no possibility to wear it. At State Visits Princess Claire will always wear the Order she has been given by the guest. On his turn the guest will wear the Order he/she has been given from the Belgian King.

The Belgians simply do not know events like in other monarchies where the own Order can be worn by ladies in long. For an example the northern neighbours have the annual Prinsjesdag (picture) or had the King's Investiture in 2013 which saw the Dutch royals wearing their Dutch Orders indeed (picture).

[GömdNatt]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The simple answer is: she has no possibility to wear it. At State Visits Princess Claire will always wear the Order she has been given by the guest. On his turn the guest will wear the Order he/she has been given from the Belgian King.

The Belgians simply do not know events like in other monarchies where the own Order can be worn by ladies in long. For an example the northern neighbours have the annual Prinsjesdag (picture) or had the King's Investiture in 2013 which saw the Dutch royals wearing their Dutch Orders indeed (picture).

That doesn't answer anything and it's wrong. No, she doesn't have many opportunities to wear it, but she has and she doesn't or she wears it wrong. In 2008, she wore the sash but not the badge. Which doesn't make sense because she's worn her other orders correctly (though I have a slight problem with her sash wearing).

She's had at least 3 opportunities to wear the Belgian order and she hasn't. It's confusing to me.

[An Ard Ri]

As per Wikipedia Princess Claire has been awarded

Belgian honours

Belgium Belgium : Grand Cordon of the Order of Leopold (but no date)

http://36.media.tumblr.com/f70bc00d1...jme9o1_400.jpg

Foreign honours

The Netherlands : Dame Grand Cross of the Order of the Crown (2006)

Norway (Orders) : Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Norwegian Order of Merit (20 May 2003)

Portugal : Dame Grand Cross of the Order of the Infante Dom Henrique (8 March 2006)