Non-British Styles and Titles - Page 6

EmpressRouge · #**101** 06-08-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florawindsor

thank you Elspeth. i guess that's what's gonna happen to William's wife

if he marries soon enough

If William marries after Charles becomes king, he will become (though not automatically) the Prince of Wales, and his wife would be titled "(her name,) HRH the Princess of Wales." If William marries while Elizabeth is still the monarch, she'll probably grant his a new or extinct peerage title (e.g. Duke of Clarance, i think that ones extinct), like what Queen Victoria did for the future George V and Mary of Teck, then Duke and Duchess of York. Otherwise, William's wife would be known as HRH Princess William of Wales.

His Lordship · #**102** 06-08-2005, 01:53 PM

Hello EmpressRouge,

With all due respect, William would NOT be known as Prince of Wales nor would wis wife be known as Princess of Wales whether or not he married when Charles was on the throne or not, or if QEII was still Queen.

So let's clear some things up:

The oldest son of a monarch upon birth is automatically known as the Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Chester, Baron Renfrew and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

The monarch is the one who determines WHEN the oldest son receives the title Prince of Wales.

As the children of the Prince of Wales, William and Harry are officially HRH ______ of Wales.

When they marry, their wives will be called HRH Princess William, Harry of Wales, unless they already have a dukedome conferred upon them....then these women will be known as HRH first name of Dukedom.

Charles is Prince of Wales until mommy dies then he becomes king...William IS NOT automatically Prince of Wales until Charles confers it officially upon him...however he does receive automatically all the other titles....if he is married by that time, his wife will take the rank and female version of all those titles.

If he is married at the time he is coferred to be Prince of Wales, then his wife will be officially known as HRH first name, Princess of Wales.

Once again I would also like to point out that Diana never "lost" HRH...she only had that titular dignity during the duration of her marriage...even she knew that. The press are the ones who made such a big deal with that.

Hope this helps....again, I am only trying to print the facts and clear the confusion up.

EmpressRouge · #**103** 06-08-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by His Lordship

Charles is Prince of Wales until mommy dies then he becomes king...William IS NOT automatically Prince of Wales until Charles confers it officially upon him...however he does receive automatically all the other titles....if he is married by that time, his wife will take the rank and female version of all those titles.

Please note that I did say "though not automatically" in my thread. And in all likelyhood, William probably will be eventually confered the title of Prince of Wales when (if) Charles becomes king.

His Lordship · #**104** 06-08-2005, 02:20 PM

I agree with you 100% Empress...cool profile name by the way....he would be conferred....I was trying to clear some things up to others as the titles for the British monarchy can be a little confusing.

EmpressRouge · #**105** 06-09-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msfroyste

perhaps carlos hugo was pissed b/c someone close to him was getting happily married and he was being ditched, thus he decided to take it out on everyone around him. had it been me, i would've given him a good kick in the pants and told him to get over himself. perhaps that's what jean basically did (or could've acutally done, don't know, i wasn't there) when he nixed the bourbon-parma name/titles.

It's ironic that they divorced after all the scandal Carlos Hugo and Irene caused with their marriage. Irene secretly converted to Catholicism, which her parents realized only after seeing her picture at Catholic mass in a newspaper. This and her engagement sparked a Protestant outcry and Constitutional crisis in Holland. Carlos Hugo was also a Carlist pretender to the Spanish throne and active leader in Franco's far-right facist party. She had agreed to cancel her engagement and return to the Netherlands, but was not on the plane sent to take her back. Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard took a military plane towards Spain, but had to turn back because the Dutch gov't threatened to resign if its head of state were to set foot in Franco's facist Spain. The two were eventually married, but Irene lost her right of succession and forever live outside Holland. Some say she had been Franco's pawn. They became part of the intern'l jet-set before divorcing in 1981. Though the Dutch royal family has a long history of controversial marriages, I think this one was the biggest. I would compare it to the likes of Henry VIII's marriage to Anne Boleyn.

msfroyste · #**106** 06-10-2005, 09:10 AM

yup, goes to show you, that ppl are ppl, and that misery loves company, whether you're royal or not.

petritheturtle · #**107** 07-11-2005, 12:06 AM

...a royal were to marry a normal citizen. Say if a prince marries a woman does she become a princess? And how does one achieve the status of Count? (ie the Count of Monte Cristo etc.)

Von Schlesian · #**108** 07-11-2005, 12:23 AM

Generally the elligibility of the future wives of Princes/Princesses are determained by the Monarch/Consort. It differs on the Monarchy, and certainly whether the Monarchy is still a ruling dynasty, or a former one.

As far as the title "Count", it is a title present in the Peerage (and in some cases, the Royal families), of certain countries eg: The Imperial German house of Hohenzollern contains many Princes, Grafs (Counts), Barons etc. To explain the titles system of the whole world would be a monumental task, but if perhaps you're more specific about the countries you're interested in, then a more consice answer can be given.

Reina · #**109** 07-11-2005, 12:30 AM

You could always buy one (a title of course)

petritheturtle · #**110** 07-11-2005, 12:34 AM

The French Monarchy, the monegasque in particular. If Princess Caroline had married a normal man, then would he become a Prince? As for the question of becoming a count, I am inquiring about the same monarchies. What does the title of Count signify? Also, since Princess Caroline never gave her children titles, does that mean that they can never attain them? How would they go about acquiring their titles if they felt the need?

petritheturtle · #**111** 07-11-2005, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reina

You could always buy one (a title of course)

Can that title be awarded aswell?

Von Schlesian · #**112** 07-11-2005, 12:52 AM

Historically the title of Count was someone who was the head of a "County" (an area of land within a Kingdom/Principality etc where an individual had been appointed as the Monarchs' representative. They rank above Knights and Barons, but below a Marquis, Duke or Prince. That is the most simple explaination. The title of Count is generally European, however I'm not educated enough on the Monarchies of the Middle East and Asia to speak for them.

Generally if a Princess married a commoner, they would not recieve the title of "Prince", however, it does depend on the position of the Princess, and the Monarch. Depending on the Monarchy, it depends on the power exercisable by the monarch. I cannot give you an example regarding France (or more accurately, the French Royal Houses).

petritheturtle · #**113** 07-11-2005, 12:56 AM

Downs Monaco even use the term Count? Or Comte?

Idriel · #**114** 07-11-2005, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petritheturtle

Can that title be awarded aswell?

I am totally ignorant when it comes to Monaco, but I know that in France you can buy aristocratic titles. Basically, you buy "letters of nobility" that prove you have the right to use a title and your kids after you. But, contrary to Germany where titles are part of the name and appear on the passport, titles are not recognized by the French republic. So you can buy the title of Count of Monte Cristo (if it is to sell), but you can only use it to impress in society, not officially.
The kings of France used to award Dukedom to their mistress, so I guess Monarch can award a County, which is a lesser title. I know the Queen of UK can, as she created her son Edward Count of Wessex.

Idriel · #**115** 07-11-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petritheturtle

Downs Monaco even use the term Count? Or Comte?

I think that among his 20 or so titles, Rainier had a or several title of Count. Someone more expert than me will answer, I'm certain.

norwegianne · #**116** 09-28-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lashinka2002

Prince William of Denmark (I think) married Queen Mary II of England in the late 1600's and he became King. She even died before him and he still ruled for several years before dying himself. I'm not sure exactly why but if anyone can fil me in that ould be great. Queen Mary was the daughter of King James and sister to Queen Anne.

William of Orange and Mary II ruled jointly.

Iain · #**117** 09-28-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florawindsor

i think Prince Philip did give up his Greece Prince title ,cos when he bacame a british citizen, he was Lieut. Mountbatten. also, when u abandon your nationality, isn't it only natural you give up all the titles you have in that country?
afterall there was no monarchy in greece now, so it's of no importance whether he gave it up or not,imho

THe whole prince Philip saga smacks of British snobery. The British, or more correctly the English, believe that the Windsors are superior to all other royal families.

Warren · #**118** 09-29-2005, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

THe whole prince Philip saga smacks of British snobery. The British, or more correctly the English, believe that the Windsors are superior to all other royal families.

Depends on what you mean by "superior". I am sure the Danish, for example, think their Royal Family is "superior" to any others becuase it is theirs. Ditto for Spain, The Netherlands, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Thailand, Brunei, Tonga etc etc. One would expect that the people of a Monarchy would have greater loyalty to their own dynasty than another country's.

In terms of international recognition and awareness there is no argument that the Windsors are the most well known. If the English thought the Windsors were "inferior" to other Royal Families we would have something to worry about, just as (for example) the Nassaus would if the people of Luxembourg thought their Grand Ducal Family was "inferior". It's about loyalty and pride in one's own reigning House. Surely that is natural?
.

**Marengo** · #**119** 09-29-2005, 05:07 AM

Well, in other european countries one would not be ashamed when the fiance is a prince of Greece and Denmark, on the contrary I think. The spanish never asked Queen Sophie to change her name in Miss Sophie von Sleswich-Holstein, as the english did of Prince Phillip for example, english snobbery at its worst indeed! I believe in those years Greece was even an ally against communism!

Von Schlesian · #**120** 09-30-2005, 12:03 AM

Greece was still a Kingdom in 1947 when HRH The Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh disclaimed his titles of Prince of Greece and Denmark. These actions, (and those which preceaded them in 1917 with the changing of the Germanic House names), aren't quite marks of British/English snobbery. They were decisions made on the advice of the elected government members, and appointed civil servants who take care of diplomatic relations, protocol and ettiquette, and in doing so believe the decisions made, are in the best interests of the monarchs' subjects, and the monarchy itself.