Non-British Styles and Titles - Page 3

Australian · #41 04-05-2005, 10:55 PM

Is there such a title called "Your Elegance" i have heard this been said before, "Her Elegance".

I seem to remember that some King once gave a man who did remarkable things for some country, the title of His Highness. Has anyone ever heard of that happening? He is a commoner and they gave him the title of His Highness, not His ROYAL Highness.

KikkiB · #42 04-26-2005, 03:19 PM

Just thinking about marrying royals and recieving titles. Meaning, who got the highest title in their country on their day of marriage, i.e. queen, princess, grand duchess and so on. (if this discussion already has a tread, please do close this one - I haven't got full overview of all the treads.)

I know that Queen Silvia got her title when marrying King Carl Gustav, so she didn't "graduate" from princess school. And Grace Kelly got the princess title when marrying Prince Rainier.

Others? Not just "recent" marriages, but historically. What about Queen Wilhelminas husband, did he get the Prince Concort title when married?

sara1981 · #43 04-26-2005, 09:24 PM

im not sure about Diana,Princess of Wales? Sophie,Countess of Wessex? Sarah,Duchess of York? and Camilla,Duchess of Cornwall? but i understand Princess Anne is daughter of HM Queen II

mostly royals womans who got titles when got married to Crown Prince,Prince,Grand Duch,Earl

I think Princess Diana took titles as Princess of Wales when she got married to Prince Charles in 1981 many people loves her very much for more 15 years.But she is daughter of Earl 8th Charles Spencer but Diana still as Lady Diana Spencer before she enter Royal Family.

Sophie did took titles also when she got married to Prince Edward in 1999 and she had Royal titles and her parents dont have titles as Sir,Madam,Earl.

Sarah did took titles also when she got married to Prince Andrew in 1986 im not sure her parents had titles?

Camilla did took titles when she got married to Prince Charles this month April 9th but she didnt taking titles of Princess of Wales because more low-profiles of Diana,Princess of Wales's titles but she known as Duchess of Cornwall that it.She and Charles been had affair,mistress,companion for more over 30's years but her kids dont have titles! her ex-husband dont have titles also.

Sara Boyce

florawindsor · #44 04-30-2005, 07:11 AM

hi i have a question about the title of "princess".
somebody told me that long time ago, princes are not allowed to marry the commons( they only marry foreign princess), since time change, they now can marry common people with no title, so in order to preserve their dignity, and nobleness, the sovereign will make his/her future daughter-in-law(before the wedding) a Princess(meaning a princess-by-blood, not a princess-by-marriage), is it true? i know that before Princess Margaret married, the Queen made her husband an earl. but i never know they made the future bride a "princess" before the wedding. so is princess diana already a "princess" or simply Lady Diana Spencer before she married Charles?
i know it's maybe no importance to you but in my native language, Princess by blood and princess by marriage are 2 different words. so this is really important. if you know anything about this topic, pls do reply .thanks!

ps:i posted this topic before but i can't find it, so i am posting again:(

Claire · #45 04-30-2005, 10:06 AM

I'm afriad the answer is more difficult than than as the rules differ in various European houses. For example in Britian only a women born royal (ie. they are the daughters or grand- daughters of the sovereign.) can claim the title of Princess. Such as Princess Anne, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.
Diana's title was Princess of Wales - the Princess part was only the femine version of Prince Charles title. So she was never Princess Diana, she was Diana, Princess of Wales.
In British royalty - women marrying in to the royal family assume their husband's titles. So technically. Diana was also Princess Charles of Wales
Sarah was Princess Andrew and Sophie is Princess Edward. But only Princess Micheal of Kent uses this notation, as it is understandable that they wouldn't want to use their husband's names.

I believe parts of Europe, the moment a women marries a royal with the title of Prince, they themselves became Princess. Maybe others can help further.

KikkiB · #46 04-30-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire

So technically. Diana was also Princess Charles of Wales
Sarah was Princess Andrew and Sophie is Princess Edward. But only Princess Micheal of Kent uses this notation, as it is understandable that they wouldn't want to use their husband's names.

I know this is a bit of topic, but this tradition of using the husbands title has also been practiced by commons too, not only in royal circles. In the past it was common for a wife being officially known by her husbands name, i.e. mr. & mrs. John Smith, colonel and mrs. Peter Smith, doctor and mrs. Gary Smith. But my guess is that this tradition disappeared with the womens liberation "campagins" in the 60s and 70s. Just a comment...

norwegianne · #47 04-30-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire

I believe parts of Europe, the moment a women marries a royal with the title of Prince, they themselves became Princess. Maybe others can help further.

It is the current monarch who decides on the title of people marrying into the royal families, at least as far as I'm aware and understand, in Denmark and Norway.

It was King Harald who officially decided that Mette-Marit's title after her marriage would be Her Royal Highness Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway.

Of course, there is a bit of automatic to it. It would be strange if the monarch didn't grant them the title, as he/she has to approve the marriage before it happens.

florawindsor · #48 04-30-2005, 01:38 PM

thanks for the replys!
the particular title i was talking about when i asked this question is that of Princess Alexandra of Denmark. there's a report in local paper which says Alexandra "gongzhu"(Chinese, meaning princess-by-blood) visited some children center. so i think the translation should be "wangfei"(Chinese, meaning princess-by-marriage).
then sb told me that her mother-in-law made her a princess before she married Prince Jochiam, now she assumed her title before her marriage.so it's ok to call her a "gongzhu" now. but in many papers reporting about the divorce they described as" she will retain the title of Princess". so in this sense, i think the "princess" means a "princess-by-marriage".
if Denmark does have the tradition of making the future wife of princes a 'princess' before the wedding, then i must have been wrong. maybe i confused the tradition of UK with them, cos in UK they don't do so.
it's really confusing! discussing such complex issues with someone from a different culture(like me). thank you again for the reply!
btw,if you want to know more about the british title, there's a link
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...ish%20princess

norwegianne · #49 04-30-2005, 01:50 PM

It's not given out before marriage. It's more given out "during" the ceremony, to put it like that. I think that there was a press release from around Mary and Frederik's wedding that said that Mary would be Crown Princess Mary of Denmark from [the date and time of the wedding ceremony], and I seem to recall such a thing with Princess Alexandra as well.

Of course, my memory could be faulty.

florawindsor · #50 04-30-2005, 02:09 PM

thank you norwegianne!
i found this on the denmark royal website:)

On 18 November 1995, HRH Prince Joachim married Miss Alexandra Christina Manley, who in connection with the marriage became HRH Princess Alexandra of Denmark.

Binky · #51 05-02-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire

I'm afriad the answer is more difficult than than as the rules differ in various European houses. For example in Britian only a women born royal (ie. they are the daughters or grand- daughters of the sovereign.) can claim the title of Princess. Such as Princess Anne, Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.

Not only that, only grandchildren of soverigns through the male line get the titles Prince/Princess. Beatrice and Eugenie are princesses, Zara Philips is not. Check out this wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...tyle_and_title

Fashionista100 · #52 05-02-2005, 02:50 PM

The reason Zara and Peter do not have titles is two fold. Mr Phillips refused to be made and "Earl" or "Duke" by the Queen. Princess Anne did also not want her children to have titles as they would eventually become so far down on the sucession list they won't need them. She wanted them to be normal.

Yes, it is true titles come from the male line in most royal houses unless it is the child of a souvringn and there are no male heirs. As in Denmark Queen Maragrethe was a Princess by birth and became Queen, her husband was not a Prince by birth, but her children Joachim and Fred are princes b/c of their mother being Queen. If here children were not inline to become sorveign they would not be princes but counts or something.

As far a Princesses become princess "by birth" upon marriage, to my knowledge it isn't true. Most royals in Europe would take their husbands title to show they are Princesses by marriage ie Princess Andrew of York (Sarah Ferguson) Princess Michael of Kent etc. But today they do not use these "offical or real titles" its just a tradition of a bygone era. However if a Princess by birth marries a Prince by birth she is still called by her first name not her husbands because she is of equal stature.

ladybelline · #53 05-02-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Queen Maragrethe was a Princess by birth and became Queen, her husband was not a Prince by birth

Yes, her husband was a French Count before their wedding (Count Henri de Laborde de Monpezat) and he was given the title of Prince Henrik of Denmark after he married Crown Princess Margrethe.

Binky · #54 05-02-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fashionista100

The reason Zara and Peter do not have titles is two fold. Mr Phillips refused to be made and "Earl" or "Duke" by the Queen. Princess Anne did also not want her children to have titles as they would eventually become so far down on the sucession list they won't need them. She wanted them to be normal.

You are right, Fashionista100. I forgot about Mark Phillips not wanting a title. Had he accepted on Zara and Peter would be styled Lady and Lord.

sara1981 · #55 05-03-2005, 02:54 AM

im not sure about late Lady Diana Spencer took titles to become Princess of Wales when she married to Prince Charles in July 1981 i think she did took titles because Diana become 300 years as Princess of Wales someone said that.

And also Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson took titles as Duke and Duchess of York when both got married in July 1986.

And also Prince Edward and Sophie-Rhys Jones create as Earl and Countess of Wessexes when both got married in June 19,1999

Princess Anne become Princess Royal when she got married to mr.phillips they Tim but she would plans divorces but the Queen said DONT!

Sara Boyce

Ennyllorac · #56 05-03-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara1981

im not sure about late Lady Diana Spencer took titles to become Princess of Wales when she married to Prince Charles in July 1981 i think she did took titles because Diana become 300 years as Princess of Wales someone said that.

And also Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson took titles as Duke and Duchess of York when both got married in July 1986.

And also Prince Edward and Sophie-Rhys Jones create as Earl and Countess of Wessexes when both got married in June 19,1999

Princess Anne become Princess Royal when she got married to mr.phillips they Tim but she would plans divorces but the Queen said DONT!

Sara Boyce

Sara,

Princess Anne did not receive the title of Princess Royal when she married. According to the Royal Family website she received the title in 1987, long after she married Mark Phillips. She married him in 1973 and they were divorced in 1992. The title of Princess of Royal was bestowed to her in recognition of her hard work.

Anna_R · #57 05-03-2005, 10:30 AM

Well, taking advantage of this topic, I would like to ask something.

I heard that, at the time of the wedding, Princess Maxima was created Princess Maxima of the Netherlands, although she uses, by courtesy, the title of HRH Máxima, Princess of Orange. And, in the event of a divorce (God forbid), she would be styled "HRH Princess Maxima of the Netherlands".

In Marie-Chantal's case, her title is simply Crown Princess Pavlos of Greece. Why isn't she known as Crown Princess Marie-Chantal of Greece?

I hope this is not too confusing....

ladybelline · #58 05-03-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

In Marie-Chantal's case, her title is simply Crown Princess Pavlos of Greece. Why isn't she known as Crown Princess Marie-Chantal of Greece?

I think (maybe somebody could confirm the fact) that it is King Constantine who decided prior to her wedding that she will not be styled as "Princess Marie-Chantal" but "Princess Pavlos".

If anyone has a confirmation...

florawindsor · #59 05-06-2005, 12:51 PM

usu when a woman marries someone royal, she takes the femine form of her husband's title.
but when a non-royal man marries a royal woman,it's different. Prince Philip was made a Duke before his wedding, and made a Prince in the 1950s. but he doesn't get the title of Prince Consort, as far as I know. Prince Albert get the title of Prince Consort in 1857 . i guess the title of PC is some kind of recognition of his hard work or sth

ksenia · #60 05-06-2005, 07:26 PM

HRH The Prince of Wales's wife is the Princess of Wales. She just chooses to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall which is one of his lesser titles out of courtesy for those who feel strongly about the prince's first wife. I'm sure if you wrote Clarence House they would give you an official rendering of her titles.