Non-British Styles and Titles - Page 18

R_Bee · #**341** 05-29-2008, 08:08 PM

Here's another hypothetical marriage: HI&RH Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia and HRH Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden. He has the higher rank, but she's the future queen of a reigning monarchy, so whose styles/titles would take precedence, particularly for any kids they might have?

kimebear · #**342** 05-29-2008, 08:29 PM

I would imagine that the Swedish title would take precedence. If not only because they would be the children of a Swedish monarch, but because the Prussian title is strictly courtesy. It would depend on the Swedish government to acknowledge the Imperial and Royal or just the Royal Highness style.

PrinceOfCanada · #**343** 05-30-2008, 12:38 AM

I would imagine that she actually has the higher rank, as 1) reigning monarchy, not defunct, 2) will be Queen in her own right, same as our dear old Lilibet.

HMTLove23 · #**344** 05-30-2008, 02:59 PM

what if the Crown Prince, who has a heir Dies. What would the title of his widow, the mother of the new crown Prince or Princess be??

I know something like that happened in Sweden. but I dont understand what would happen.

would she no longer be refered as the crown Princess or just go back to be a princess

PrinceOfCanada · #**345** 05-30-2008, 03:47 PM

She would be a Princess. The term 'Crown' Prince or Pss designates the Heir.

**Stefan** · #**346** 05-30-2008, 04:12 PM

She would be the Dowager Crown Princess if her husband ws Crown prince. In the Ut Frederick, Prince of Wales , the oldest son of George II. died and his wife Augusta was then styled as the Dowager Princess of Wales.

PrinceOfCanada · #**347** 05-30-2008, 04:58 PM

I don't think that Dowager Crown Pss has any meaning. You are the Crown Princess by virtue of being either Heir or married to the Heir. If someone else is the Heir, you don't have the title any longer. Dowager Princess, maybe.

Prince of Chota · #**348** 06-02-2008, 12:18 AM

I doubt "Dowager," which is usually reserved for widows of holders of specific titles. If it was, say, the Princess of Asturias, then the widow might be called the "Dowager Princess of Asturia," but the same may not be said for the title of "Crown Princess".

PrinceOfCanada · #**349** 06-02-2008, 02:30 AM

Precisely. The Queen Mum was known as such because she was a Queen first, then Queen Mother. If (for sake of argument) Edward VII had been able to keep the throne and then died without issue, Elizabeth Bowed-Lyon would never have been known as the Queen Mother; she would never have been Queen.

Similarly, one cannot be Dowager X if one was never X in the first place, or if X is dependent on very specific circumstances.

auntie · #**350** 06-02-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada

Precisely. The Queen Mum was known as such because she was a Queen first, then Queen Mother. If (for sake of argument) Edward VII had been able to keep the throne and then died without issue, Elizabeth Bowed-Lyon would never have been known as the Queen Mother; she would never have been Queen.

Similarly, one cannot be Dowager X if one was never X in the first place, or if X is dependent on very specific circumstances.

She would have been Dowager Duchess of York wouldn't she?
As for the case in Sweden, it happened 60 years ago to the present king's mother, but she wasn't yet Crown Pss, her husband was the oldest son of the Crown prince, grandson of the king, he was heir apparent, when she died, she continued to be Pss of Sweden, am I right?

PrinceOfCanada · #**351** 06-02-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

She would have been Dowager Duchess of York wouldn't she?
As for the case in Sweden, it happened 60 years ago to the present king's mother, but she wasn't yet Crown Pss, her husband was the oldest son of the Crown prince, grandson of the king, he was heir apparent, when she died, she continued to be Pss of Sweden, am I right?

Well, yes, because she was Duchess of York.

Prince of Chota · #**352** 06-03-2008, 03:39 AM

The "Queen Mother" wouldn't have been titled as such if she did not share a Christian name with her daughter. She was always titled "Queen Elizabeth", with the latter part only added to distinguish her from her reigning daughter. Queen Mary was, for example, never a "Queen Mother", and it is not traditional to use "Dowager" as a part of the formal title.

auntie · #**353** 06-03-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince of Chota

The "Queen Mother" wouldn't have been titled as such if she did not share a Christian name with her daughter. She was always titled "Queen Elizabeth", with the latter part only added to distinguish her from her reigning daughter. Queen Mary was, for example, never a "Queen Mother", and it is not traditional to use "Dowager" as a part of the formal title.

Queen Mary was never the Queen Mother, she was the king's mother. Queen Victoria's mum was never the Queen, No other Queen (not consort) for many years had a mother who was Queen(consort) before her (and had the same name) and still alive. So the question arose when the queen ascended the throne , what to call her mother, how should she be known. She still was The Dowager Queen Elizabeth, but was given an honourary title "Queen Mother"
The Queen mum revelled in her status, was the royalest royal, in her lifestyle, srvants etc., and had an adjustment period when her daughter became #1.

PrinceOfCanada · #**354** 06-03-2008, 10:16 AM

Which person she was mother of was immaterial; Queen Mother refers to the fact that she was a Queen herself, as well as Mother of the sovereign.

She was rather the royalest royal, though. Good turn of phrase.

auntie · #**355** 06-03-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada

Which person she was mother of was immaterial; Queen Mother refers to the fact that she was a Queen herself, as well as Mother of the sovereign.

She was rather the royalest royal, though. Good turn of phrase.

My point being that there were other consorts who gave their place away, 2 more in this century QAlexandra and QMary, and they were not called QMother, as they were King mother, that was her special position, being a dowager queen and a mother of the next queen, vs M-I-Law

HRH Kerry · #**356** 06-08-2008, 09:32 PM

What's the proper title of Princess Caroline of Monaco since her marriage to Prince Ernst August? Should she be HRH or HSH?

Maycastle · #**357** 06-08-2008, 09:43 PM

I'm just back from the Monaco Grand Prix and I took a photo of Princess Caroline as she passed by in her car with the window open!

I understand that she is styled "HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover". When her father was alive, she was lower than him even though he was a serene highness, but he was a ruling prince. This placed her higher than her brother Albert who was the hereditary prince at the time. Her youngest daughter is also a "HRH".

Prince of Chota · #**358** 06-08-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

She still was The Dowager Queen Elizabeth, but was given an honourary title "Queen Mother"

"Dowager" was never a formal part of Queen Elizabeth's title, which is why the need for "Queen Mother" was so strong. It is alright to refer to her as "the dowager Queen of England," but not to say "the Dowager Queen Elizabeth" in formal circumstances.

Leslie2006 · #**359** 06-09-2008, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMTLove23

what if the Crown Prince, who has a heir Dies. What would the title of his widow, the mother of the new crown Prince or Princess be??

I know something like that happened in Sweden. but I dont understand what would happen.

would she no longer be refered as the crown Princess or just go back to be a princess

It depends on whether or not the crown prince's heir(ess) is of age; if he/she is not, then it's likely the child's mother would become regent until then. So her title would probably be Queen Mother or somthing to that effect.

Next Star · #**360** 07-10-2008, 08:03 PM

[quote=LadyK;772141]Generally, the royal spouse takes on the title of the spouse who's title is highest, if that title is transferable. Some royals, most commonly those who are marrying future monarchs, will renounce or stop using their previous titles, usually as a sign of allegiance and fidelity to their new country.

For example, Her Royal Highness Princess Sophia of Greece, upon marrying His Royal Highness Prince Juan Carlos of Spain, adopted her new title as Princess of Spain, later Princess of Asturias and, now, Queen of Spain.

When Prince Philip of Greece decided to marry his distant cousin Princess Elizabeth of England it was decided that since she was to be queen of England, he should adopt her title. Philip then became the Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten. Upon his marriage he became Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh. Later, upon the queen's decree, he was titled His Royal Highness Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh.

A more rare circumstance is that of Princess Haya of Jordan and her husband, Sheik Mohammad bin Rashid al Maktoum. Haya, as technically the higher-ranking royal (she is a HRH, he is only an HH) kept her own styling as Her Royal Highness Princess Haya. This is rarer because not only is the higher ranked partner a female but also because he is the ruler of Dubai while she is only the younger sister of the king.

Princess Haya does not outrank her husband being she is not head of state
even though she is a member of a reigning royal family.Her husband outranks her
being he is a reigning royal head of state.