Non-British Styles and Titles

[auntie]

I just realized something, if the Duke of York becomes King (as in George V, George VI) does the title revert to the crown ? or is he also HM King so and so, Duke of York (just as many royals have several titles)

[Paula**]

Is time to Queen and King stay in the same level
that is just so sexist, so old ... Is stupid

[Mapple]

Originally Posted by auntie

If the title is available, they are awarded that title. ...

Not necessarily, the second son of Queen Victoria was created Duke of Edinburgh.

Originally Posted by auntie

I just realized something, if the Duke of York becomes King (as in George V, George VI) does the title revert to the crown ? or is he also HM King so and so, Duke of York (just as many royals have several titles)

The title merges into the Crown and 'disappears'. A monarch cannot hold a peerage dignity from himself.

[auntie]

Originally Posted by Mapple

Not necessarily, the second son of Queen Victoria was created Duke of Edinburgh.

Why didn't she give the title to her 2nd son? is it because she wanted to bestow him the title of Duke of Sax Coburg and Gotha? can the title of duke of York be given to anyone but the 2nd son?

[Josefine]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Princess Ingrid of Sweden married Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, and became Crown Princess Ingrid of Denmark.

was she not still princess of sweden

[purple_platinum]

i know this sound like a ridiculous question...
but if Prince Andrew of Great Britain marry Infanta Cristina of Spain...
will Cristina become HRH Infanta Cristina, Duchess of York, Duchess of Palma de Mallorca? and will Prince Andrew will become HRH Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Duke of Palma de Mallorca?
thus both of them have title from the spouses' countries?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by purple_platinum

i know this sound like a ridiculous question...
but if Prince Andrew of Great Britain marry Infanta Cristina of Spain...
will Cristina become HRH Infanta Cristina, Duchess of York, Duchess of Palma de Mallorca? and will Prince Andrew will become HRH Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Duke of Palma de Mallorca?
thus both of them have title from the spouses' countries?

Prince Andrew would remain HRH the Duke of York and the Infanta would become HRH the Duchess of York.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Josefine

was she not still princess of sweden

I've heard of Ingrid referred to as Ingrid, Princess of Sweden, Queen of Denmark. I've also heard her referred to simply as Ingrid of Sweden, Queen of Denmark but I don't know if these titles are official.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I've heard of Ingrid referred to as Ingrid, Princess of Sweden, Queen of Denmark. I've also heard her referred to simply as Ingrid of Sweden, Queen of Denmark but I don't know if these titles are official.

On the royal Danish webpage they refer to her as: Queen Ingrid, born Princess of Sweden, in Queen Margrethe's profile.

It has been traditional that females marrying males, take their last names/titles, and forgo their maiden names. (Or males do it, as the case with Prince Henrik.)

[Toledo]

Before I log off, here is the link for one of the best sites that explains the use of titles. Scroll down to items # 7 and # 8 for the part on the Princes
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm

[ysbel]

Thanks Anne and toledo. Toledo I spent ages looking at that site. What a find. I only wish there was more info on the Scandanavian countries.

[michelleq]

How do the German Royal/Princely Families handle this scenario? If a woman marries a German Prince (HRH/HSH/HH) what title do they assume?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by michelleq

How do the German Royal/Princely Families handle this scenario? If a woman marries a German Prince (HRH/HSH/HH) what title do they assume?

Some examples:
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco married HRH Prince Ernst August of Hanover (aka HRH The Prince of Hanover) and became HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover, alternatively HRH The Princess of Hanover.

HRH Princess Bendikte of Denmark married HSH Prince Richard of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and became HRH Princess Benedikte of S-W-B.

HSH Princess Marie of Wied married HRH Friedrich, Hereditary Duke of Württemberg and became HRH The Hereditary Duchess of Württemberg.

[michelleq]

Originally Posted by Warren

Some examples:
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco married HRH Prince Ernst August of Hanover (aka HRH The Prince of Hanover) and became HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover, alternatively HRH The Princess of Hanover.

HRH Princess Bendikte of Denmark married HSH Prince Richard of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and became HRH Princess Benedikte of S-W-B.

HSH Princess Marie of Wied married HRH Friedrich, Hereditary Duke of Württemberg and became HRH The Hereditary Duchess of Württemberg.

Thank you Warren. All of the above were Princesses in their own right; does the same rule apply to Nobility, Aristocracy and/or Commoners who marry Princes?

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Thanks Anne and toledo. Toledo I spent ages looking at that site. What a find. I only wish there was more info on the Scandanavian countries.

Your welcome :)
I have this thing for tracking down the most unusual sites around everytime I have a question in my head about a particular royalty related subject. From maps to data only us, :) web amateur royal historians, will find interesting. And we are all in here historians in some shape or form. We want to know more and know the why on these fascinating group of families that have forged the world we live in.

One of the best small books around related to the origins of Royalty and the wording, the titles etc is how the king became his majesty or some title in those lines. I can't find where I put my copy nor can track it down in google to get a link (because I can't remember the exact title :o ). But is a great book on the origin of words that are used to refer to royal titles.

But back to that great site, this section here has even more interesting information on the use of 'highness' and styles: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/highness.htm

and this page is about Royal Styles

[Lady Jennifer]

Originally Posted by purple_platinum

i know this sound like a ridiculous question...
but if Prince Andrew of Great Britain marry Infanta Cristina of Spain...
will Cristina become HRH Infanta Cristina, Duchess of York, Duchess of Palma de Mallorca? and will Prince Andrew will become HRH Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Duke of Palma de Mallorca?
thus both of them have title from the spouses' countries?

Well something like that happened when Princess Astrid of Belgium married Lorenz, Archduke of Austria-Este. He was made a Prince of Belgium in 1995. Their children: His children bear the titles "Prince(ss) of Belgium, Prince(ss) Imperial and Archduke(Archduchess) of Austria-Este, Prince(ss) Royal of Hungary and Bohemia".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Lorenz_of_Belgium
In this case he took her title as well....a few years after marriage but he took it just the same

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by Lady Jennifer

Well something like that happened when Princess Astrid of Belgium married Lorenz, Archduke of Austria-Este. He was made a Prince of Belgium in 1995. Their children: His children bear the titles "Prince(ss) of Belgium, Prince(ss) Imperial and Archduke(Archduchess) of Austria-Este, Prince(ss) Royal of Hungary and Bohemia".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Lorenz_of_Belgium
In this case he took her title as well....a few years after marriage but he took it just the same

That brings the question in my mind if an established Royal family has more pull than a deposed Royal family when is referred to titles. Anyone knows if the titles and styles of a current royal are priority over a deposed royal clan's titles?
That also brings to mind Caroline of Monaco, she was upgraded (sorry, I'm too much into computer terms) from Serene to Royal when she married a member of a Royal family deposed over 150 years ago or so. Anyone knows if Ernst is also entitled to use Caroline's Serene Highness too? After all, she is the undeclared (?) Crown Princess of Monaco while his Kingdom no longer exists on maps as it was.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Toledo

That brings the question in my mind if an established Royal family has more pull than a deposed Royal family when is referred to titles. Anyone knows if the titles and styles of a current royal are priority over a deposed royal clan's titles?
That also brings to mind Caroline of Monaco, she was upgraded (sorry, I'm too much into computer terms) from Serene to Royal when she married a member of a Royal family deposed over 150 years ago or so. Anyone knows if Ernst is also entitled to use Caroline's Serene Highness too? After all, she is the undeclared (?) Crown Princess of Monaco while his Kingdom no longer exists on maps as it was.

The Royal and Princely clans form a caste unto themselves. Whether or not we acknowledge their titles, styles and rankings, they do. So a member of a Royal House, whether reigning or not, will still be acknowledged within the Gotha as Royal.

A female Serene Highness marrying a Royal Highness will take her husband's style and rank; the Royal Highness will not be downgraded or take his wife's style. A person can be 'Imperial and Royal', but not 'Royal and Serene'.

In the case of Archduke Lorenz he did not so much take his wife's title as be granted the title of Prince of Belgium in his own right in 1995. His and Astrids' children were created Princes and Princesses of Belgium before their father in 1991. This was more a case of ensuring the continuation of the dynasty with a Plan B in the event that Crown Prince Philippe did not marry and Astrid's eldest son (or other sibling) would eventually succeed to the throne.

Regarding wives taking husband's titles, Lea Wolman on marrying Prince Alexandre of Belgium became HRH Princess Alexandre of Belgium. Claire Coombs is now HRH Princess Claire of Belgium (and not Princess Laurent) because she was granted the title of Princess, HRH, by Royal Decree of the King on the day of her wedding.

In the UK Princess Michael of Kent is not Princess Marie Christine because she has no title in her own right (apart from baroness). However, for the German Royal and Princely families the convention seems to be that the wife (from commoner to Countess etc) will take her husband's title but retain her first name. But of course there are exceptions (eg Prince and Princess Georg of Hanover) so there are no hard and fast rules.

[Aussie Princess]

In places like Spain, Norway and Denmark, their heir to the throne is the Crown Prince/Princess I was jusyt wondering why Charles isn't known as the Crown Prince of the United Kingdom or something? why only Wales, and why not a a Crown Prince?

[ysbel]

The Prince of Wales was originally the ruler of Wales in the early Middle Ages. Edward I defeated him and conquered Wales then gave the title to his infant son. At the time it was mainly to keep anyone else from claiming the title and challenging his sovereignity of Wales but later Princes of Wales did spend some of their king-training in Wales.

Catherine of Aragon accompanied her first husband, Arthur, Prince of Wales, to a six-month long stint as lord and lady of the Welsh court. Arthur decided small cases in the court but the weather in Wales was too harsh for his constitution. He caught cold and later died.