General Things About Royals

[missmaggy]

I remember in a book the Prince of Wales' valet wrote (sorry, can't remember his name), anyway, he, the valet that is, said that the Princess of Wales (Diana) got a lot of impromptu flowers, people got a bouquet on the way to attending the walkabout or whatever, and hoped to give to her. Those had to be fun.

Otherwise, it would be so tedious. One couldn't change one's mind about what to wear on a certain day because it had already been planned in advance to wear a certain thing, and the organizers of that day's event had been informed of outfit, so the flowers they planned to give would match, flowers one already knew one was supposed to get, and so on.

I'd rather get a dandelion wrapped in damp paper towel. Heartfelt. The sort the valet said Diana got a lot of.

and about Camilla: if she and the Prince of Wales are still married and if he succeeds his mother's throne, Camilla WILL be Queen. Whether anyone actually CALLS her that, we don't yet know. In the United Kingdom as well as the realms who claim the UK's monarch as their own, it is the legislature of that realm (parliament) which decides who gets to be the monarch. The UK's laws say that the throne passes according to male-preference primogeniture. These same laws also say that the wife of the King is the Queen. It's not for Charles or Camilla or any other member of the Royal Family to say.

Camilla goes by "Duchess of Cornwall" because a lot of people are still angry and resentful of the role they believed she played in the break-up of Charles and Diana's marriage. Calling Camilla "Princess of Wales" would offend too many people and the Royal Family doesn't want to do that. Similarly, the announcement that Camilla would, in due course, go by the title "Princess Consort" was really a polite fiction to soothe the same Diana fans.

Barring an act of the UK's parliament (and of Canada's, and Australia's, and Greneda's, etc etc), when Queen Elizabeth II dies (a loooooooonnnnggg time from now, please God) Charles will be King and Camilla will be Queen.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

A princess dowager would be addressed as "Your Highness" or "Your Royal Highness".
​

Princess Royal is a style customarily (but not automatically) awarded by a British sovereign to his or her eldest daughter.
The style is held for life.
A princess cannot be given the style during the lifetime of another Princess Royal.
​

 

[TLLK]

Thanks Warren.
I also think that Queen Rania came across as smart in the interview, and while I haven't followed or taken a lot of interest in Rania or the Jordanian royal family, I learnt a lot about them and their lives in the interview, and I think I would like to learn about Rania and her family a little more.
The interview also posed another question for me:
When King Abdullah's father was King, why wasn't the current King the heir to the throne? And why was the previous King's brother the heir?

When Abdullah was born he was the Crown Prince, but due to the political instability in the region and assassination attempts upon King Hussein it was decided to have Prince Hassan take on the role. Having a very young heir was considered to be too risky. CP Hassan fulfilled the role for decades until King Hussein's decision to create his eldest as Crown Prince again.

 

[Crown Erica]

Ok, I have a question. If this has been already asked then just erase it. How come when a Crown Princess becomes queen-her husband would either become king or prince consort. Like Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel and Queen and Prince consort of Denmark. Is that talked about before marriage in the royal families? Because Victoria said at one point-so I have read- that Daniel would not be king when she becomes Queen. Just curious.

 

[Ish]

Ok, I have a question. If this has been already asked then just erase it. How come when a Crown Princess becomes queen-her husband would either become king or prince consort. Like Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel and Queen and Prince consort of Denmark. Is that talked about before marriage in the royal families? Because Victoria said at one point-so I have read- that Daniel would not be king when she becomes Queen. Just curious.

Typically a woman takes her husband's titles. So when the King of Wherever marries his wife becomes the Queen of Wherever.

The exception is when a woman's title is higher than the man's. So, when the Queen of Somewhere marries the Duke of Not Much, she doesn't take the title Duchess (or doesn't use it).

Men never take the titles of their wives. If Mr. Titleless marries the Countess of Nothing he doesn't get to be the Count of Nothing.

A part of the argument for this is that traditionally, when men have taken their wives titles they have taken whatever power is associated with it as well. Therefore, to protect the power of their Queen consorts (and prevent typically foreign princes from ruling) most realms do not allow for men who marry royal women to take their titles. As such, Daniel is not the Crown Prince, and won't be a king anymore than Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh or Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark.

 

[Furienna]

That has been the convention for at least two hundred years, that a queen's husband doesn't automatically become a king. Neither does a crown princess's husband automatically become a crown prince. He will be a prince consort instead. It probably has to do with that when a woman is a queen or a crown princess in her own right, people also wanted to show that she didn't get her position through a marriage. And for the longest time, the husband's position would almost always be more important than that of his wife. Not making a queen's husband a king would put her clearly in charge, even back when people assumed it to be a natural thing that men should rule over women.

You could argue of course that in this modern age, things like this shouldn't matter anymore. And to be fair, it might be different in the next generation. Estelle's husband might be able to become a king through marriage!

 

[MrAriyeh]

Perhaps when succession throughout all monarchies is determined by absolute Primogeniture and the titles of nobility can pass through daughters as well as sons?
Until then what is the need to change something which only affects individuals titles as opposed to their lives (ie. when a younger brother ascends to the throne over an older sister)?

EDIT: Although maybe someday in the near future? Re-reading info on the Belgium Royal Family Prince Lorenz was created a Prince of Belgium in 1995, a first step?

Pardon me for being late in this thread. As of Dec 2015, some kingdoms now adopt absolute primogeniture (regardless of gender) and some still practice male primogeniture. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom so it's still of male primogeniture generally speaking.

 

[Meraude]

That has been the convention for at least two hundred years, that a queen's husband doesn't automatically become a king. Neither does a crown princess's husband automatically become a crown prince. He will be a prince consort instead. It probably has to do with that when a woman is a queen or a crown princess in her own right, people also wanted to show that she didn't get her position through a marriage. And for the longest time, the husband's position would almost always be more important than that of his wife. Not making a queen's husband a king would put her clearly in charge, even back when people assumed it to be a natural thing that men should rule over women.

You could argue of course that in this modern age, things like this shouldn't matter anymore. And to be fair, it might be different in the next generation. Estelle's husband might be able to become a king through marriage!

There have been a Swedish prince consort who became king, when his wife abdicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I_of_Sweden

It will take more than a generation before the husband of a reigning queen will get the title of king, and that a king consort will be seen as an inferior title to a queen regnant.

 

[Lee-Z]

imo if changes are going to be made then it would be more in keeping with modern times to not automatically get the spouses title upon marriage, so eliminate the "queen-consort" concept...

 

[JR76]

There have been a Swedish prince consort who became king, when his wife abdicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I_of_Sweden

It will take more than a generation before the husband of a reigning queen will get the title of king, and that a king consort will be seen as an inferior title to a queen regnant.

Fredrik did become king but only after his wife abdicated and he ascended the throne. During the few years of her reign he was only a prince.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[MrAriyeh]

I don't know if I can answer this question really, but from what I have heard and understood - the Government of The Netherlands wants the title of Prince/ess of Orange to exclusively belong only to the heir to the throne, and thus Máxima would be titled simply just Princess Máxima (even if most people still call her the Princess of Orange).

I've also understood that there are some wishes for her not to become titled Queen, but perphaps a Dutch member could explain that?

When it comes to Camilla, they announced at the time of the wedding that she wants to be titled Princess Consort once Charles becomes king. This is a new title never heard of, and I personally think it's rather rediculous to invent new titles like that, Camilla should rightfully be Queen Consort. But perhaps she will one day, if all turns out well with the public etc.

Since it's 10 years ago since this post, Maxime is now the Queen of the Netherlands. How did she come to this title? I don't know for sure except that she's the current King's wife.

I think Camilla is treading carefully on her prospective title. I would have done the same thing myself if I'm in her position which is a little precarious

 

[MrAriyeh]

There have been a Swedish prince consort who became king, when his wife abdicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I_of_Sweden

It will take more than a generation before the husband of a reigning queen will get the title of king, and that a king consort will be seen as an inferior title to a queen regnant.

thanks for the enlightenment as I didn't know about Frederick I of Sweden.

I've always thought a queen regnant has a prince consort for a husband, not a king. I'm referring only to the last 100-200 years back. A king automatically outranks a queen and for the queen regnant to be the top dog, her husband however a male has to be one notch down, hence prince consort. that's my general understanding.

 

[MrAriyeh]

I have a question about Prince Philip that I've been wanting to find the answer out for a while: how is he related to the Greek royal family???
Thanks to anyone who can explain!

LaPlus Belle is correct in his/her response. There's more to this information. Philip, Constantine, Paul, all are Danish princes themselves. They're members of the House of Schleswig-Holstein Sonderborg-Glucksborg (or Glucksborg for short). Greece in mid 1800's extended the invitation of an empty throne to the Glocksborgs. I believe only the royal courts of UK and the Netherlands still recognize the throne of Greece even though Greece itself abolished the monarchy.

I don't understand why Constantine is still "clutching" on something that doesn't exist anymore. His wife, Anne Marie is the sister of Sofia, the previous Queen of Spain, the mother of the current Spanish monarch, Juan Felipe.

 

[MrAriyeh]

I just watched it (taped). The "HRM" was Oprah going over the top. Apart from that it was an interesting interview, and HM Queen Rania came across as sharp and smart.

Maybe Oprah did her research first before introducing Queen Rania to the audience. As far as I know with the British royalty, only the reigning monarch carries His/Her Majesty title, everyone else are HRH, HH, HSH, etc. So perhaps, to take the cue from the British monarchy's styling, who knows Oprah may not be too far off to introduce Raina as Her Majesty.

 

[MrAriyeh]

That has been the convention for at least two hundred years, that a queen's husband doesn't automatically become a king. Neither does a crown princess's husband automatically become a crown prince. He will be a prince consort instead. It probably has to do with that when a woman is a queen or a crown princess in her own right, people also wanted to show that she didn't get her position through a marriage. And for the longest time, the husband's position would almost always be more important than that of his wife. Not making a queen's husband a king would put her clearly in charge, even back when people assumed it to be a natural thing that men should rule over women.

You could argue of course that in this modern age, things like this shouldn't matter anymore. And to be fair, it might be different in the next generation. Estelle's husband might be able to become a king through marriage!

that's correct, Furienna. It makes sense that it's assumed at first that men rule over women especially when considering the origins and backgrounds of royalty--that is--it rose from the military class during the ancient eras.
So in military matters, men take the first active roles in combat, defense, fortifications, etc.

 

[LauraS3514]

I don't understand why Constantine is still "clutching" on something that doesn't exist anymore. His wife, Anne Marie is the sister of Sofia, the previous Queen of Spain, the mother of the current Spanish monarch, Juan Felipe.

Anne-Marie is the youngest sister of Queen Margrethe of Denmark. Constantine's sister is Queen Sofia of Spain.

 

[tommy100]

Since it's 10 years ago since this post, Maxime is now the Queen of the Netherlands. How did she come to this title? I don't know for sure except that she's the current King's wife.

I think Camilla is treading carefully on her prospective title. I would have done the same thing myself if I'm in her position which is a little precarious

It was all a bit fudged really it seems, yes it was said at first that in order to be 'fair', just as the husband of a Queen remains a prince so would the wife of a King remain Princess. I guess you have to remember that The Netherlands had had mainly Queen Regents in its monarchy so many argued it was simply following history. However, whilst some politicians asked parliament to vote to prevent Maxima getting the title queen no vote was held or passed (I can't remember).
I've heard some arguments that Maxima is Queen only because its traditional that a wife takes her husbands title and that the title "Queen" for a Consort does not officially exist in the Netherlands anymore and thus Maxima is 'Queen Maxima, Princess of the Netherlands' just as any future husband to a reigning Queen (who my tradition would not take his wife's title)would be Prince NAME of the Netherlands.

 

[MrAriyeh]

Anne-Marie is the youngest sister of Queen Margrethe of Denmark. Constantine's sister is Queen Sofia of Spain.

thanks for the correction.

 

[Furienna]

There have been a Swedish prince consort who became king, when his wife abdicated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I_of_Sweden

Fredrik lived 300 years ago. I was only talking about the last 200 years.

It will take more than a generation before the husband of a reigning queen will get the title of king, and that a king consort will be seen as an inferior title to a queen regnant.

Not necessarily. We went from having no women at all in the succession to full equal primogeniture within one generation.

 

[Furienna]

that's correct, Furienna. It makes sense that it's assumed at first that men rule over women especially when considering the origins and backgrounds of royalty--that is--it rose from the military class during the ancient eras.
So in military matters, men take the first active roles in combat, defense, fortifications, etc.

Men would take the charge within most areas back in the day. But yeah, being a forceful commander was of course a "man's job"... And even though a few queens have a miltary victory to their names (Elizabeth I of England comes to mind), I don't believe that they were present at the battle scene. But being a king used to mean that you also had to become a miltary leader. Failures in war could be very devastating for your reputation though, which Gustav III and Gustav IV Adolf over here in Sweden had to learn the hard way.

 

[Meraude]

Not necessarily. We went from having no women at all in the succession to full equal primogeniture within one generation.

That were more due to changes in society at large, as men and women are considered to be equal today, but still there are women in Sweden who changes their surname to their husband's when they get married, and it's still more common that the children get their father's surname than the mother's. The man is still seen as the head of the family, regardless of equal primogeniture or not when it comes to royals.

 

[Marc23]

One question:

An example of marriage between Prince Ioann of Russia and Princess Helen of Serbia.

Who would take precedence in Russian court?

All princes and princesses of Imperial blood were His/Her Highness,while in this example a wife of a Highness is Royal Highness.

Would she outrank her husband and all princes and princesses of imperial blood?

 

[QueenEmpath]

I have a Question regarding courtesy. So other member of royal family and foreign diplomats are supposed to courtesy/Bow before The Queen. But what about someone from equal status? . Would Queen Rania of Jordan or Empress Mitchiko of Japan does courtesy?
Sorry, English isn't my first language

 

[Mbruno]

I have a Question regarding courtesy. So other member of royal family and foreign diplomats are supposed to courtesy/Bow before The Queen. But what about someone from equal status? . Would Queen Rania of Jordan or Empress Mitchiko of Japan does courtesy?
Sorry, English isn't my first language

Neither Queen Rania nor Empress Michiko are expected to curstsy to Queen Elizabeth II as they are of the same rank as the Queen, i.e "Her Majesty".


GD Maria Teresa of Luxembourg (an HRH) or Princess Charlene of Monaco (an HSH) should in principle curtsy to a reigning queen like Queen Elizabeth II. Most posters on this forum think they should not do it though, because they are marrried to a Head of State. I personally disagree with that opinion.

 

[Kingen]

What future royal events or gatherings could we expect in the upcoming years? It could be milestone birthdays, jubilees or anniversaries, and are they likely to be marked and celebrated with fellow European royals?

Denmark
16 April 2020 - Queen Margrethe's 80th Birthday
14 January 2022 - Queen Margrethe's Golden Jubilee
5 February 2022 - Crown Princess Mary's 50th Birthday

Sweden
23 December 2018 - Queen Silvia's 75th Birthday
30 April 2021 - King Carl Gustaf's 75th Birthday
15 September 2023 - King Carl Gustaf's Golden Jubilee
15 September 2023 - Prince Daniel's 50th Birthday

Norway
21 February & 4 July 2022 - King Harald & Queen Sonja's 85th Birthdays
20 July 2023 - Crown Prince Haakon's 50th Birthday

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The husband of a queen regnant of Portugal could only be titled King after the queen regnant gave birth to an heir. Queen Maria II's second husband first had the title of Prince Consort Ferdinand of Portugal. After Maria became the mother of an heir Pedro V, Ferdinand became King Ferdinand II of Portugal (jure uxoris).

 

[ronald biver]

Curtseys in royal circles

Neither Queen Rania nor Empress Michiko are expected to curtsey to Queen Elizabeth II as they are of the same rank as the Queen, i.e "Her Majesty".


GD Maria Teresa of Luxembourg (an HRH) or Princess Charlene of Monaco (an HSH) should in principle curtsy to a reigning queen like Queen Elizabeth II. Most posters on this forum think they should not do it though, because they are married to a Head of State. I personally disagree with that opinion.

During the state visit of the king & queen of the Netherlands (few years ago) Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg did not curtsey for the Dutch king & queen, as she is the wife of the head of state of Luxembourg (Grand Duke)

 

[JR76]

What future royal events or gatherings could we expect in the upcoming years? It could be milestone birthdays, jubilees or anniversaries, and are they likely to be marked and celebrated with fellow European royals?

Denmark
16 April 2020 - Queen Margrethe's 80th Birthday
14 January 2022 - Queen Margrethe's Golden Jubilee
5 February 2022 - Crown Princess Mary's 50th Birthday

Sweden
23 December 2018 - Queen Silvia's 75th Birthday
30 April 2021 - King Carl Gustaf's 75th Birthday
15 September 2023 - King Carl Gustaf's Golden Jubilee
15 September 2023 - Prince Daniel's 50th Birthday

Norway
21 February & 4 July 2022 - King Harald & Queen Sonja's 85th Birthdays
20 July 2023 - Crown Prince Haakon's 50th Birthday

From what I understand King Carl Gustav's Golden jubilee will also be coupled with the celebrations of the 500th anniversary of Gustav Vasa being elected king after liberating Sweden from the Danes.

 

[Kingen]

From what I understand King Carl Gustav's Golden jubilee will also be coupled with the celebrations of the 500th anniversary of Gustav Vasa being elected king after liberating Sweden from the Danes.

Indeed. We have to wait and see the program, but I assume the 500th anniversary will culminate on June 6th, the National Day, that is the day Gustav Vasa was elected King.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

imo if changes are going to be made then it would be more in keeping with modern times to not automatically get the spouses title upon marriage, so eliminate the "queen-consort" concept...

Regardless of that, every woman married to a King will be a consort whether it’s openly stated or not.

LaPlus Belle is correct in his/her response. There's more to this information. Philip, Constantine, Paul, all are Danish princes themselves. They're members of the House of Schleswig-Holstein Sonderborg-Glucksborg (or Glucksborg for short). Greece in mid 1800's extended the invitation of an empty throne to the Glocksborgs. I believe only the royal courts of UK and the Netherlands still recognize the throne of Greece even though Greece itself abolished the monarchy.

I don't understand why Constantine is still "clutching" on something that doesn't exist anymore. His wife, Anne Marie is the sister of Sofia, the previous Queen of Spain, the mother of the current Spanish monarch, Juan Felipe.

He’s not clutching on anything, he was a King before the monarchy was abolished.