Bowing and Curtseying

[Pranter]

Well said Marg.


LaRae

 

[Somebody]

I disagree. There is nothing about dominance in a curtsy. And, again, the fact that politicians in the UK, including the prime minister, are like any common person is a good thing.

I wouldn't expect other common people to curtsey to members of the royal family either

But again, I understand it is part of British tradition and some apparently like to uphold it, I just hope everyone is fine with a future PM not curtseying.

And I am still unsure to whom they should curtsey if they want to follow tradition. To all titled persons? Or only to her majesty and royal hignesses? Or only to peers and their spouses and not to commoners (in that case Harry was not worthy of that respect until a little over a month ago but now he is, as are all non royal dukes etc)?

 

[wyevale]

Fetishising a Flag [an inanimate object] is REALLY archaic...

Making an obeisance to a Monarch, or her representative] is more in the nature of publicly respecting the office they hold, as the senior personage in the nation.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I really don't see where is the issue about curtseying. If you accept the idea of Royalty it is obvious that there is a certain respect to pay to Royals. And this respect is being expressed in bowing and curtseying. Personally I don't know how to curtsey, otherwise I would absolutely do so (I met Queen Sofia once, I didn't try curtsey fearing the ridiculous....).
Nevertheless I believe curtseying is lovely with ladies wearing long dress, the vue of legs being strangely crossed is not nice, and gives the impression than the lady is almost falling down

 

[tommy100]

I disagree. There is nothing about dominance in a curtsy. And, again, the fact that politicians in the UK, including the prime minister, are like any common person is a good thing.

It was once said people took comfort in the fact that, once a week at their meeting that a powerful forceful leader like Margaret Thatcher, dropped a curtsey to the Queen. It made the point that as powerful a political leader they may be there was a higher power they were accountable to and were expected (but not made) to show deference to.

 

[irish_royalist]

I agree. It looks very, very odd to the modern eye. Not necessary. Maybe one might do it with a religious figure, but even there nothing extreme should be indulged. JMO.

Personally I would much rather bow or curtsey to a member of the Royal Family than a religious figure!

 

[Lady Nimue]

Personally I would much rather bow or curtsey to a member of the Royal Family than a religious figure!

Well, one is a throwback to feudalism, the other (possibly) is respect to a spiritually dedicated person (maybe).

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Personally I would much rather bow or curtsey to a member of the Royal Family than a religious figure!

I am quite the opposite. I would genuflect before a successor to the Apostles-a cardinal-without even thinking twice.

It would never occur to me not to.

 

[Pranter]

I am quite the opposite. I would genuflect before a successor to the Apostles-a cardinal-without even thinking twice.

It would never occur to me not to.

Ditto...even the local Bishop.


LaRae

 

[maria-olivia]

No bow and curtsey seen for Luxembourg on June 23th. In Belgium , sometimes a bow or a light curtsey .

 

[Mbruno]

No bow and curtsey seen for Luxembourg on June 23th. In Belgium , sometimes a bow or a light curtsey .

I saw some old footage of Queen Astrid on YouTube and I noticed bows and curtsies seemed to be common in Belgium back in the 1930s. When did they fall out of use ? Was it during King Baudoyin’s reign ?

 

[kbk]

If they have already seen the Queen earlier in the day they would of already made their curtesy, no need to do it again.


LaRae

I don't agree with you. If you chose to curtsy/bow, you should do it when you see someone in and out, for example when the Queen enters the room and when she leaves it.

 

[Pranter]

I don't agree with you. If you chose to curtsy/bow, you should do it when you see someone in and out, for example when the Queen enters the room and when she leaves it.

Doesn't matter if you agree with me or not...just relaying the custom observed by the BRF.


LaRae

 

[maria-olivia]

Curtsey/bows ended in Belgium in de seventies.

 

[irish_royalist]

I am quite the opposite. I would genuflect before a successor to the Apostles-a cardinal-without even thinking twice.

It would never occur to me not to.

It's probably a denominational thing then - Roman Catholics tend to 'genuflect' (?curtsey) before religious statues etc, whereas Protestants do not.

 

[sarahedwards2]

It's probably a denominational thing then - Roman Catholics tend to 'genuflect' (?curtsey) before religious statues etc, whereas Protestants do not.

It’s because of that that Catholics are accused of worshipping statues and relics.

 

[Pranter]

Which of course they don't do.


LaRae

 

[wyevale]

'Genuflecting' [bending the Knee] IS done in High Anglican Churches [in the UK, but only to the Altar [on entering or leaving a Pew]..
Never to a prelate.. who doesn't have the 'intercessor with God' status in this church, that he has in the Catholic faith.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It's probably a denominational thing then - Roman Catholics tend to 'genuflect' (?curtsey) before religious statues etc, whereas Protestants do not.

It was stopped in Protetantism in the 1500s as it was seen as worshipping an idol which is against the commandments.

We also don't make any sign to bishops or archbishops as they are human beings and in many protestant denominations were even removed at the time of the reformation arguing that any person can preach the word of God.

Royals were seen as different and so curtseying and bowing continued. It is no longer required in the UK - HM herself made that quite clear some years ago and you will see many people don't curtsey to her at all anymore.

There is no way I would curtsey to another human being - they are no better than I am and so do not deserve to have me humiliate myself before them.

If someone else choose to curtsey or bow then they have that right and I will respect that but I personally wouldn't do it.

 

[Mbruno]

'Genuflecting' [bending the Knee] IS done in High Anglican Churches [in the UK, but only to the Altar [on entering or leaving a Pew]..
Never to a prelate.. who doesn't have the 'intercessor with God' status in this church, that he has in the Catholic faith.

Catholics don’t genuflect for a bushop or any other prelate. That is a misconception.

Catholics don’t worship statues either. They only bend their knees to the altar and only when the consecrated host is being kept behind the altar.

 

[Pranter]

There are Catholics who do bend the knee for Bishops/Cardinals ...some kiss their ring or even press their forehead to the hand of a priest. Just depends on the person and their practices or what the norm is for their parish/culture.

It's a sign of reverence to the office they hold, not the person themselves.


LaRae

 

[MARG]

'Genuflecting' [bending the Knee] IS done in High Anglican Churches [in the UK, but only to the Altar [on entering or leaving a Pew]..
Never to a prelate.. who doesn't have the 'intercessor with God' status in this church, that he has in the Catholic faith.

You are quite right. It is still done here in High Churchs as well.

 

[Mbruno]

There are Catholics who do bend the knee for Bishops/Cardinals ...some kiss their ring or even press their forehead to the hand of a priest. Just depends on the person and their practices or what the norm is for their parish/culture.

It's a sign of reverence to the office they hold, not the person themselves.


LaRae

I have never seen anyone bending their knees for a Bishop,. Kissing a bishop’s ring is fairly common though. In fact, even the King and the Queen of Spain do it as it can be seen at Felipe and Letizia’s wedding.

I have seen princesses, including Protestant princesses like Madeleine of Sweden, curtsying to the Pope, but I guess that is because the Pope is also technically a head of state and a monarch.

 

[Pranter]

I have never seen anyone bending their knees for a Bishop,. Kissing a bishop’s ring is fairly common though. In fact, even the King and the Queen of Spain do it as it can be seen at Felipe and Letizia’s wedding.

I have seen princesses, including Protestant princesses like Madeleine of Sweden, curtsying to the Pope, but I guess that is because the Pope is also technically a head of state and a monarch.

Well the pope is a Bishop....but yes it used to be more common, probably rarely done now/more often done by other clergy to senior prelates... except when it comes to The Holy Father.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

It's probably a denominational thing then - Roman Catholics tend to 'genuflect' (?curtsey) before religious statues etc, whereas Protestants do not.

No they don't.....

There are Catholics who do bend the knee for Bishops/Cardinals ...some kiss their ring or even press their forehead to the hand of a priest. Just depends on the person and their practices or what the norm is for their parish/culture.

It's a sign of reverence to the office they hold, not the person themselves.


LaRae

So is bowing or curtysting to a royal... its not "humiliating oneself" unless the person thinks of it as humilitation.. in wich case they should not be doing it...

 

[maria-olivia]

This is a royal board and not religious !

 

[kbk]

There is no way I would curtsey to another human being - they are no better than I am and so do not deserve to have me humiliate myself before them.
If someone else choose to curtsey or bow then they have that right and I will respect that but I personally wouldn't do it.

Why do you consider bowing/curtseying humiliating? I see this as a sign of respect, not subordination. Also, this is a kind gesture of following the tradition.
Remind that the Royals themselves seem not to have any troubles with doing that. They do it always and very properly.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Cristina of Spain curtseyed to her father King Juan Carlos in 2006.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/71009688

 

[royal_enthusiast]

Hi, does the mother of a Monarch have to curtsy to their child. I know the Queen Mother did not have to curtsy to The Queen but what about if Diana was alive when her son William was on the throne. Would she obliged to curtsy to him?

 

[kbk]

Bowing and curtseying is a gesture of greeting, a very traditional sign of respect by an individual for an individual. Today, mostly a matter of tradition. It is not a must as nobody is expected to do that anymore. It's up to you.

However, I think it is noticeable when so many commoners do not follow that, most royal families keep the tradition themselves and bow/curtsy to each other. Consorts, unless considered unequal (like the Princess de Rethy), customarily take the rank of the monarchs they are married to. Thus, it is not expected from Queen Letizia of Spain to curtsy to Mathilde of Belgium. I also don't see them curtsying to Willem-Alexander and Felipe VI, respectively. However, for example here on this video https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqx18a you can see The Duke of Edinburgh bowing to the monarchs but not their spouses.

Back to your question, I can imagine Princess Diana curtsying to her ex-husband when he becomes King and then her elder son when he succeeds him. Why not? But would she be "obliged"? No one is obliged to do that.

I can also imagine that, on the moment she saw her daughter for the first time as Queen, the Queen Mother did that also, just to show her respect to the new Sovereign. I remember the scenes from The Crown TV series when Elizabeth II meets her closest family members, the mother, sister and grandmother, the old grand Queen Mary, for the first time as Queen. Of course, this is just a fictitious interpretation of history. Are there any sources for that actually happened? Nevertheless, I can imagine it did.