Bowing and Curtseying

[Skippyboo]

The very young such as George or Mia aren't going to be bowing or curtseying as toddlers but as they become more older they are going to see their parents doing and would follow suit.

The Queen's children and grandchildren bow and curtesy to her and Philip and that will continue with Charles and Camilla and then with William and Catherine. It's the crown not the person that they are bowing to. The consort is the highest ranked male or female in the order of precedence




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[royal rob]

While I understand bowing to the Queen I don't understand bowing to the consort.


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[Ish]

Would they bow for their mother Diana, as Queen? It is so very unnatural.

The Queen-Consort does not represent the Crown. She has no any constitutional power other than being the spouse of the King. Thinking what a sort of hands-on mother Diana was (and the sort of father Charles is) it would not surprise me when the King requests his sons not to bow to him.

What?

Okay, first of all, members of the BRF and the extended family bow and curtsey to the sovereign, the sovereign's consort, and the dowager consorts. I'm sure it doesn't happen in private, but we've seen it happen in public - we've seen Charles, William, Harry, etc, and their spouses all bow or curtsey to the Queen and DoE (and the Queen Mum when she was still alive). Why would we expect things to be any different under a new monarch?

Second of all, what does Diana have to do with it? Diana has been dead for nearly 20 years. Even before she died she wasn't going to become Queen Consort, her divorce assured that. Had she became Queen Consort during the relatively short period of time that she was married to the Prince of Wales then yes, her children would have bowed before her - as would her in-laws. It has nothing to do with how hands on of a parent she was. Further, regardless of what her opinion of the matter would have been, Charles is a man who has spent his whole life bowing to the monarch and there's no reason to believe he won't continue this tradition.

 

[royal rob]

Yes I get the bowing to Queen or King. A consort is not royal they have married a royal. They are not the crown.


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[JR76]

What?

Okay, first of all, members of the BRF and the extended family bow and curtsey to the sovereign, the sovereign's consort, and the dowager consorts. I'm sure it doesn't happen in private, but we've seen it happen in public - we've seen Charles, William, Harry, etc, and their spouses all bow or curtsey to the Queen and DoE (and the Queen Mum when she was still alive). Why would we expect things to be any different under a new monarch?

Second of all, what does Diana have to do with it? Diana has been dead for nearly 20 years. Even before she died she wasn't going to become Queen Consort, her divorce assured that. Had she became Queen Consort during the relatively short period of time that she was married to the Prince of Wales then yes, her children would have bowed before her - as would her in-laws. It has nothing to do with how hands on of a parent she was. Further, regardless of what her opinion of the matter would have been, Charles is a man who has spent his whole life bowing to the monarch and there's no reason to believe he won't continue this tradition.

Is it Diana-time again? Lol here we go...


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[Osipi]

Yes I get the bowing to Queen or King. A consort is not royal they have married a royal. They are not the crown.

Actually Philip is HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh so I would think that would denote him as royalty. Even before marriage, he was royal as Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark by birth.

 

[royal rob]

Phillip may be royal but Camilla's not Kate's not and if things go as planed people will have to bow to them. Why ? They married a royal !

 

[MARG]

oh...the hugging... i vividly remember going in for a handshake with a US person i had met that day, and them going in for a hug... ... hand got trapped somewhere in the middle (won't happen again )
Yep, definitely many cultural differences, also between monarchies, one is very different from another

It's a bit of a shocker getting squeezed by a stranger. I'm quite happy to shake hands or even courtsey, just keep outside my personal space!

The Duchess of Cornwall curtsied to the Queen yesterday.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/13/13/289E0D2E00000578-0-image-a-1_1431521955590.jpg

She didn't just courtsey, she followed that with the BRF norm, a peck on both cheeks.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/13/14/289E120800000578-3079918-image-m-8_1431522511362.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/13/14/289E0D3C00000578-3079918-image-a-9_1431522524762.jpg

 

[royal rob]

"

She didn't just courtsey, she followed that with the BRF norm, a peck on both cheeks. "
Throw in a secret handshake and you would all base's covered ?


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[Duc_et_Pair]

The argument "he (she) has always bowed so why would he (she) end that tradition" of course counts for all royal courts. Name them all: the bow, the révérence, the backwards leaving the room: at many Courts all this has been scrapped because it was felt as an unneccessary hindrance in human relations.

Note that also in the United Kingdom a bow or a révérence is always optional and a handshake will do perfectly. When this is an option for you and for me, then it should also be optional for William and Harry towards their father and (step)mother. It should also be optional for Prince George and Princess Charlotte. It would really not surprise me when King Charles insists on his sons: "Come on, I am your dad!" and requests them to act normal towards him.

 

[Lee-Z]

It would really not surprise me when King Charles insists on his sons: "Come on, I am your dad!" and requests them to act normal towards him.

So bowing is "abnormal"? I get the opinion that for the BRF it's very normal to bow or curtsey to the Queen or the DoE and we often seen (like Camilla did recently, but i've also seen it from William and Harry) to first do the formal bow and then give her a kiss on the cheek.
Every family has it's own "normal" ways (both royal and non-royal) that are sometimes strange to others; but does that mean that they should stop doing it just because "everyone else it differently"?

And besides, in loads of threads we complain of the lack of respect shown to royals and when this family does use a formal sign of respect they should stop?

I like that there are different customs in different countries and families and wouldn't want to see them being all the same

 

[Skippyboo]

It's optional for the members of the immediate royal family, they just choose to do it. I would imagine the first time that your family bows to you as the monarch really hits home for the person that it has happen.


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[Duc_et_Pair]

So bowing is "abnormal"?

Requesting his sons to act normal is not the same as laying the word 'abnormal' in my mouth. But now you have taken the effort to write down the word "abnormal"... The word means: not according the norm, not according the usual standard. In this respect, yes: bowing is abnormal indeed. If it was "normal" we would not dedicate a special thread to that on the Royal Forums.

 

[Mbruno]

Gracious as always but a bit strange, it is her very own mother-in-law. I can not imagine William and Harry bowing to their father when he is King.

I am pretty sure they will. That is the protocol in the UK, unless Charles changes it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I am pretty sure they will. That is the protocol in the UK, unless Charles changes it.

Exactly. That was my point. I expect a change. Other posters think nothing will change. Note that even under the "unchangeable" Elizabeth II a lot has changed. The backward walking has been scrapped, that the obligatory révérence or bow has been made optional, that the strict dresscode has been changed into more options, as we can see evoluing in the State Openings, Garden Parties and Troopings through the decades.

We will see how it turns out.

 

[Skippyboo]

Charles bows to his parents and to his grandmother when she was alive. The Queen is still his mother. So Charles is William & Harry's father but he will be their King and they will treat him like they do now with Granny a bow and then a kiss.


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[Dman]

Yes, when Charles is King, William and Harry and all members of the royal family will bow and curtsy to the King and Princess Consort/Queen. That's just how it is and it's not going to change.

 

[Liegeman]

My first post on the forum. Please be kind.

I recently saw a video of the recessional of the coronation of HM King George VI and HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother where the ladies in the royal box all performed a curtsey as the King passed. Those in the box that curtsied included HM Queen Mary (HM's Mother), HM Queen Maud of Norway (HM's Aunt, HM King Haakon VII was not present) and the King's children.

I remember reading somewhere of a consort (whom I believe may have been HM Queen Mary) saying of her children, "I must remember their Father is also their King". Along those lines, it is not really unnatural for children (or siblings and even parents) to curtsey before the sovereign. The obeisance would not to a parent or elder but to the crown.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes, when Charles is King, William and Harry and all members of the royal family will bow and curtsy to the King and Princess Consort/Queen. That's just how it is and it's not going to change.

How do you know? Did you ask him?

 

[Kellin]

I can not imagine William and Harry bowing to their father when he is King.

First that man carried them in his hands when they were small, played with them and hugged them. And then they will have to formally bow to him as they are nothing more than his subjects. Yes, I understand it's just a formality but why monarch's children can't be more informal?

 

[Skippyboo]

Didn't the Queen play with them too and do Granny things with them but they still bow when the first greet her.

Do you think the Pope's family still calls him by his real first name or Holy Father?

It's all about showing respect to the person in the position.


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[Marty91charmed]

I don't think it will be a bid deal honestly... William and Harry, and others usually bow and kiss the Queen on the cheek, and this happens mainly in public display...

 

[Ish]

How do you know? Did you ask him?

You're right, we don't know for certain that Charles won't change things. He might hate the bowing and curtseying and do away with it. There are certainly some traditions that he'll change during his reign, and this could be one of them.

However, I say again that I don't think he will. While there are many ways in which Charles isn't traditional, there are also many ways in which Charles does fill that traditional role. We see him act like the "proper" prince in this regard, always showing deference to those "above" him. There are even the allegations that he has made people in his personal life - including Diana before his marriage and his stepchildren now - call him "sir." Personally, I think this might be a part of royal life that Charles likes and I can see this continuing during his reign.

Whether it will continue during William's is another matter altogether. While Charles has always seemed to accept, if not enjoy, this part of royal life - he is almost always seen showing proper deference to those "above" him and seems to expect it from those "below" him, so to speak - William is another matter. Yes, he bows to his grandparents, but he doesn't always do so to other monarchs or Crown Princes. He is rumoured to ask people to not refer to him as "sir", and doesn't seem to enjoy the confines of royal life in that regards. With that in mind, I think we could see William do away with bowing to the monarch, but I don't think Charles will.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I think that even now both they bow to the PC of Wales and the PC of Wales bows to the Queen despite that she is his mother. Where is the problem? It is a sign of respect and It is a use to be respected. Full stop.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I don't think it will be a bid deal honestly... William and Harry, and others usually bow and kiss the Queen on the cheek, and this happens mainly in public display...

I agree. I don't see anything wrong. It shows reverence and respect as well as affection.

 

[Rudolph]

Its a sign of respect. Charles won't be able to command people to bow to him anymore than the Queen can. People curtsey to the Queen to show their respects. Whether this continues during Charles reign is anyone guess.

I'll be more interested to see who curtsies to Camilla.

 

[Osipi]

I think it all depends on if they have their public "game faces" on. If the family is in a private situation that the public doesn't ever see, it may be the norm that full, proper protocol is done away with although we know that the Christmas dinner at Sandringham is very formal and very proper with white tie dress and the family arriving in the dining room by precedence. In public, they are very much the representatives of the Queen and Crown and show that respect. One of my favorite examples of this is when William greeted his grandmother at RAF Valley around the time of his wedding. *Very* formal bow and then kisses on the cheek. (The bow will be the 3rd picture in the slide show).

Queen visits Prince William at RAF base - Photo 3 - Pictures - CBS News

As far as Charles being a proper prince and being called "sir", there is a pretty good interview with Tom Parker-Bowles in his thread under The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall. He remembers he and his sister always called him "Sir" but as time passed, it became more an endearing title of familiarity such as "Uncle" or such.

The British Royal Family is the epitome of keeping alive the pomp and pageantry and protocol of all things pertaining to the UK. Some traditions are ages old and the BRF have made keeping them alive into a fine art.

 

[Marty91charmed]

I agree. I don't see anything wrong. It shows reverence and respect as well as affection.

It doesn't change their feelings, does that?

 

[Darnius]

The Countess of Wessex curtsied to the Queen yesterday.

The Royal Windsor Horse Show - Pictures - Zimbio

 

[eya]

Family or not is the Protocoll to curtsied the monarch.