Bowing and Curtseying

[royalistbert]

Queen Elizabeth II (Princess Elizabeth) Curtseying to Queen Ingrid at 1:47.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZTQoFth_Hc

[Dman]

There was something really beautiful about the State Visits back in the day. I loved the welcoming ceremonies at the train station. For some reason they stopped doing the ceremonies at the train station in the 80's or 90's.

[EmmaNL]

Originally Posted by carlota

it wasn't abolished officially, but Queen Juliana of the Netherlands discouraged being curtsied to and ever since them you will see no curtsies in Netherlands. however, maxima used to curtsy to foreign monarchs when abroad when she was still the princess of orange.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...rtsies0001.jpg

That's true, although there were some examples of curtseys by foreign royals in the Netherlands, for example Princess Letitizia curseying for then Queen Beatrix at WA's 40th birthday party in 2007. She made a very low, deep curtsey, as did other princesses (I think Sophie and other Spanish princesses curtsied as well, not sure).

[sarahedwards2]

Originally Posted by royalistbert

Queen Elizabeth II (Princess Elizabeth) Curtseying to Queen Ingrid at 1:47.

Interestingly, Gordon Lightfoot's two children from his first marriage were also named Fred and Ingrid (their mother was Swedish). Hmm, I wonder.... 29 days until I see him live at Hamilton Place; I have a big circle around May 7th! I wonder if the staff at McMaster hospital will be there (which I live just up the street from); they did save his life almost 12 years ago! Sorry if I got off-topic here.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Dman

There was something really beautiful about the State Visits back in the day. I loved the welcoming ceremonies at the train station. For some reason they stopped doing the ceremonies at the train station in the 80's or 90's.

In many European countries the rail networks have become very busy and tight in schedule. Especially in the United Kingdom, where the network has been privatized and several rail companies make use of the same network. This means that any State Visit using a train, with security before and after, closure of platforms at the station, closure of railway lines for the royal train, etc. cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways.

Back then in the 1950's and 1960's when the railways were not as congested as today, there was more space but also more goodwill to arrange "slots" for the arrivals and departures of royal trains.

[Dman]

Thanks for pointing that out.

[maria-olivia]

A 4 days State Visit , what an organization and what an amount of day and evening dresses.

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

In many European countries the rail networks have become very busy and tight in schedule. Especially in the United Kingdom, where the network has been privatized and several rail companies make use of the same network. This means that any State Visit using a train, with security before and after, closure of platforms at the station, closure of railway lines for the royal train, etc. cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways.

Back then in the 1950's and 1960's when the railways were not as congested as today, there was more space but also more goodwill to arrange "slots" for the arrivals and departures of royal trains.

Unfortunately, here in the UK the phrase "cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways" is very little used on account of the fact that we've not had a "proper working of the railways" for decades. Accordingly, I doubt our commuters would notice much difference if a state visit caused a delay lol!

[Darnius]

So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Darnius

So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?

In the first place, a curtsey or a bow is always optional, never an obligation. A nice handshake is as good as a curtsey. For New Zealand and Australia I think there are three things to take in account:
- there is no any culture of curtseys or bows in these countries
- the visitors are not the royal couple, not even the heirs, but a step lower
- the visitors are young and it will be a generational attitude. A bow to an older lady feels "natural" a bow to fresh young Catherine is not.

Just my guess.

[Darnius]

Thanks Duc_et_Pair for the explanation, that's very sensible!

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Darnius

So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?

They've received some curtsies and bows on the tour. I saw it in the Live Coverage's.

[sarahedwards2]

In the olden days (1800's), girls and young women curtsied to any adult they were introduced to or encountered; even non-royals. I wonder why this was discontinued? I see it as a mark of respect to any superior, royalty or not (especially your music or ballet/dance teacher!)

[LadyFinn]

Prince Louis of Luxembourg greets queen Sofia at the canonisation of the popes
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/P...r-d5z2pgFx.jpg

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

In the olden days (1800's), girls and young women curtsied to any adult they were introduced to or encountered; even non-royals. I wonder why this was discontinued? I see it as a mark of respect to any superior, royalty or not (especially your music or ballet/dance teacher!)

It's a mark of respect that extended well into the 20th century. Princess Caroline of Monaco curtsied to notable adults(heads-of-state, princes of the Church) as a child. Jacqueline Kennedy also had her very young children doing the same when they lived in the WH in the early 60's.

It's very charming and polite, but it's an upper class courtesy that appears to have died out, like so many others.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Prince Louis of Luxembourg greets queen Sofia at the canonisation of the popes
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/P...r-d5z2pgFx.jpg

thanks for the pic, how charming... it's always nice seeing a person from a young generation curtsying to someone older, but i don't believe we see it very often... so it's refreshing that louis did a proper bow to sofia...

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.

Here in the US very few women wear lace veils unless it's to a Tridentine Mass, but most people still genuflect before sitting if the Sacrament is on the altar. It would personally never occur to me to sit down without genuflecting, I was taught that it's a sign of respect , faith and reverence.

People who do not genuflect will usually at least bow their heads and make the sign of the Cross here in the U.S before taking their seats.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Prince Louis of Luxembourg greets queen Sofia at the canonisation of the popes
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/P...r-d5z2pgFx.jpg

Wonderful photo,I'm wondering also if this was HGD Stephanies first meeting with the Spanish King & Queen?

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.

Genuflection is still very common in Ireland,mantillas are making a small comeback but mainly at Tridentine Masses,there's a church near me where all the ladies wear them!