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01-14-2013, 02:12 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,276
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There is an interesting story about a conversation between a British Labour Minster and Prince Willem Alexander, The Prince of Orange. The minister was telling that prince that in his younger days he had held strong republican views and had vowed not to bow to HM when he was to meet her at an official reception. The Prince knew how the story would go.....when HM appeared in front of the minister she spoke in such a low voice he had to bend down in order to hear her making it appear to everyone as if he had indeed bowed to the Queen. When the minister asked the prince how he knew the end of the story WA just winked at him.
It appears as if HM has her own way of making a point when she wants to.
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01-14-2013, 02:37 PM
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Administrator in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,469
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Posts going back and forth heatedly arguing about the constitutional position of the Queen have been removed. Sigh.
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01-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 4,138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish
Roslyn, I was talking about lawmakers, not lawyers. Lawmakers, I meant, MPs,ministers etc. When the sole woman Prime Minister made wonderful curtsies each time, I dont understand why these females have so much arrogance to show their respect to their Head of State, the symbol of their nation and polity..
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But you haven't answered my question. Did they bow? If they did bow, maybe they thought they were showing adequate respect to their Head of State. Maybe, like me, they - whether lawyers or lawmakers, and many lawmakers are lawyers - don't see why women should have to do something differently from men in this regard. I don't see the ability to execute a "wonderful" curtsey as being anything to aspire to, and maybe they don't either. I think it is a ridiculous and awkward action, particularly when wearing a short skirt and high heels. But if they didn't even execute a shallow bow, that's a very different kettle of fish.
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"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
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01-19-2013, 02:16 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bandung, Indonesia
Posts: 115
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At 0:17 you can see Princess Charlene curtseying to the Archbishop of Monaco.
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01-19-2013, 04:23 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 694
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A low curtsey in a skirt shorter than knee-length or in very tight skirts doesn't look right to me; it looks best in long wide skirts. A 'bob' also works in a short dress, but the full curtsey looks awful to my eyes in shorter dresses or trousers.
No wonder - it was 'designed' to look graceful, when a woman drops back in silk-waves of her skirts.
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01-20-2013, 11:55 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 212
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I looked through this thread and don't think this has been answered..within the families, do all royals have to bow and curtsy to each other? I know we've seen it in the Spanish and British royal families, where the infantas will courtsey to the king and queen, and same for Queen Elizabeth's children and grandchildren, but I have never, for example seen Prince Frederick and Princess Mary bow/courtsey to Queen Margarethe or Prince Philippe/Princess Mathilde recognize King Abert/queen Paola this way. Are some families more informal than others?
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01-20-2013, 02:39 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice
I looked through this thread and don't think this has been answered..within the families, do all royals have to bow and curtsy to each other? I know we've seen it in the Spanish and British royal families, where the infantas will courtsey to the king and queen, and same for Queen Elizabeth's children and grandchildren, but I have never, for example seen Prince Frederick and Princess Mary bow/courtsey to Queen Margarethe or Prince Philippe/Princess Mathilde recognize King Abert/queen Paola this way. Are some families more informal than others?
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How come you missed Danish curtsies..Both Danish royals and high society curtsey their Queen and higher royals more 'strictly' than British royals..
Here are a few examples..
In the above vid, you can see almost everyone curtseying Mary 'Donaldson', who was not yet the Crown Princess, whili she walks down the aisle. I believe even the British/Spanish do not show that much devotion to Diana/Letizia.
In the above vid, you can see Frederik/Mary/Joachim/Marie..all bowing/curtseying QM2 and Henrik.
Thats pretty good, again bcos I have never seen Charles/Diana/Camilla/Andrew/Sophie/Anne/Edward/Sarah bow or curtsey to Prince philip, even though they have just done that for Queen. Only Kate curtseyed him 'very publicly' on the balcony in 2011.
But one thing, Princess Benedikte never curtsies QM2 or Prince Henrik (see the 2nd vid, and also a few others) Then I wanted to see what Princess Margaret used to do, and recently I found this video, in which Princess Margaret very cheerfully drops a curtsey to the Queen..
Princess Margaret curtseying Queen at 3:10
I love these intriguing ways how different royals make their own standards of curtseying, especially the siblings/cousins of royals. You wont have any specific reason/proper protocol here. Its completely their own wish someways..
Here is one more..
In 1:13:03 you can see only the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester bow/curtsey the Prince and Princess of Wales, while no one else among the extended BRF did so..
In this one, see from 4:52 onwards, when everyone starts bowing/curtseying when Fred/mary/Joachim/Marie enter, Princess Elisabeth, the Queen's cousin, the old lady in pink (to the left when one enters the room) doesnt curtsey them. She curtseys only the Queen...
I love these intriguing ways how different royals make their own standards of curtseying, especially the siblings/cousins of royals. They wont have any specific reason/proper protocol here. Its completely their own wish someways..
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01-20-2013, 02:42 PM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Here, France
Posts: 459
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Princess Marie probably practiced a bit to improve 
At Princess Athena's christening, she nicely curtseyed to Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik while holding her baby girl. Look at 12.05 :
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01-21-2013, 12:20 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 212
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Thank you. I was under the impression some royal families are more formal than others. Thank you all!,,
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01-29-2013, 07:30 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: , Sweden
Posts: 9,520
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Something new will be when we will first see the Curtsey for the new king and queen of the netherlands
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01-29-2013, 12:28 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine
Something new will be when we will first see the Curtsey for the new king and queen of the netherlands
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Yup and that "credit" of permanently depriving Dutch RF of curtseys goes to QUeen Juliana. She even wanted people to stop addressing the monarch as "Your Majesty". Thank God Queen Beatrix again restored the custom of addressing as "YM". I do respect Queen Juliana for her simplicity and free-spirit, but then monarchs should not take too much liberty according to their personal whims, when it comes to centuries-old customs. Their successors may not always appreciate them. I dont believe Queen Beatrix would have let to be done away with curtsies if it were her reign.
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02-03-2013, 12:07 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Phoenix, United States
Posts: 1,758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl
Once a King always a King? What exactly are Michael and Simeon King of? Not Romania or Bulgaria thats for sure.
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They are kings by Devine right even if they are deposed! I believe this is where they are coming from and also, Michael is and will always be the King of Romania and same with Simeon in terms of Bulgaria -only thing for them is that they no longer have access to the throne of their countries... Bit, this does not erase the fact that both were officially kings of their respective countries by Devine right and or that they would possibly still be here had it not been for the removal of their families due to war and other things.
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02-10-2013, 11:24 PM
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Commoner
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: North Bay, Canada
Posts: 33
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It's not required for anyone to really curtsy or bow to royalty anymore, especially not their own monarch. Thus American bow to no one because they revolted against their King along time ago.
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02-11-2013, 08:29 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 7,589
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No no no no..They are no longer Kings by Devine Right...Really...we are way passed the middle ages here...They are Monarchs by the will of the people,if they don't want a Monarchy anymore,then they will step aside.As Monarchs in Europe have repeadtedly said...As easy as one two three...There's only one annointed Monarch left,and I wonder,and hope not...her successor will go through the whole totally outdated charade of a Medieval Coronation...A touch to time would do nicely..
And as to curtseeing,it is a sign of respect but the respect will not deminish if one forgets to curtsey.Allthough among Royalty it is still custom to curtsey,a Princess or Duchess will always curtsey to a Monarch.Other then that,it is free to all to do so.
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02-11-2013, 06:56 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Manteleina, Rabat, Malta
Posts: 639
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02-11-2013, 07:36 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ipswich, United Kingdom
Posts: 798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien
...I wonder,and hope not...her successor will go through the whole totally outdated charade of a Medieval Coronation...
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I'm sorry but this outdated charade as you call it has be going on for a 1000 years. I don't care what year it is. I wish to see my Monarch crowned. If coronations have happened for the past 1000 years then I don't see why we should stop just because we are in 21st Century. A century is just a number! 
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02-11-2013, 08:24 PM
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Member - in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalistbert
I'm sorry but this outdated charade as you call it has be going on for a 1000 years. I don't care what year it is. I wish to see my Monarch crowned. If coronations have happened for the past 1000 years then I don't see why we should stop just because we are in 21st Century. A century is just a number! |
I also hope that those monarchies that still remain will keep all the pomp and circumstance and traditions when it comes to the coronation of a new monarch. It gives a nation such a sense of continuity and pride.
As far as Divine Right, that is long gone. I believe it started in the Holy Roman Empire through the Donation of Constantine (which most researchers have shown to be fraudulent) where the Pope was required to crown a new king or queen.
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02-11-2013, 08:41 PM
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Commoner
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: North Bay, Canada
Posts: 33
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But then when England broke from the Catholic Church and the Pope, they still had the divine right thought. So that must've changed atleast in England
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02-11-2013, 09:17 PM
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Member - in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestialPrincess
But then when England broke from the Catholic Church and the Pope, they still had the divine right thought. So that must've changed atleast in England
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Actually if I recall rightly, its always been the Archbishop of Canterbury that has acted on behalf of the Pope as far as coronations in England. When England split from the Roman Catholic church and formed the Church of England, that tradition was upheld.
I think the whole Divine Right thing started when Constantine molded the new Roman church and declared himself as the divine head of the church. The Donation of Constantine was a document held by the Vatican passing this "divinity" to the head of the church (Pope). It still exists such as the Pope is considered to be infallible in matters of faith. Henry VIII never declared himself to be either divine or infallible but retained the title of "Defender of the Faith" which the Queen holds to this day.
All this makes me realize just how far back some of the traditions that accompany a new king or queen has or bowing and curtseying as a mark of respect. It would be a sad loss if they were shelved as archaic or antiquedated as they're so rich in history.
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To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
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