Bowing and Curtseying

[stella1971]

hmmmm?

Will the Duchess of Cambridge curtsey to Princess Beatrice and Eugenie? | Mail Online

[Grandduchess24]

So now you curtesy in the prescence of "blood princesses" like Beatrice and Eugenie but what about zara and lady Louise? Royal by blood but no HRH or princess title. Plus why Kate is married to the 2nd who will inherit the throne, but I guess Kate like Sophie and Camilla are only royal by marriage.

[Madame Royale]

Zara isn't royal, she's just related to people who are.

Naturally, Lady Louise is technically a Princess but as a child, it would be unreasonable to expect Catherine to curtsey to her.

Personally, I think it will be a sad day when the curtsey and neck bow fly out the window. I just love it!

[Princess BellyFlop]

I understand and agree with curtsying to Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra, it's Bea and Eugenie I have a problem with.... hum.

[miche]

Dickie Arbiter was a former press secretary to HM The Queen
Dickie Arbiter - Royal Commentator | Broadcaster | Public Speaker

Here is what he said about the curtsying

Dickie Arbiter @RoyalDickie

@victoriaarbiter Any curtsying by royals to royals is to The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh only

[stella1971]

Originally Posted by Princess BellyFlop

I understand and agree with curtsying to Princess Anne and Princess Alexandra, it's Bea and Eugenie I have a problem with.... hum.

yes, me too but i suppose ours is not to question why. maybe they are feeling like she is getting too much limelight? dear me!

[Princess of Durham]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

Oh my... PBeatrice should get some lessons from her aunt..

I agree, she looks as if she is about to pitch forward. Princess Michael of Kent is to be excused for holding her husband's hand given her age but Beatrice and Autumn look very clumsy. The Countess of Wessex looked truly elegant. I do agree about the long skirts .... who knows what went on under those voluminous things.

[Princess of Durham]

Originally Posted by stella1971

yes, me too but i suppose ours is not to question why. maybe they are feeling like she is getting too much limelight? dear me!

Maybe Daddy York thought she was getting too much limelight.

[SLV]

Anyone remember the 50's movies about Sissi? Now those were curtseys! I do think they did them differently there, though I don't know how. Those ladies-in-waiting were so close to the ground.

[stella1971]

Originally Posted by Princess of Durham

I agree, she looks as if she is about to pitch forward. Princess Michael of Kent is to be excused for holding her husband's hand given her age but Beatrice and Autumn look very clumsy. The Countess of Wessex looked truly elegant. I do agree about the long skirts .... who knows what went on under those voluminous things.

some of those with shorter skirts are flashing a rrather lot on inner thigh... and of course the photographers must know to be watching for that

[misselle]

I am not sure about the story posted in The Telegraph, and The Mail-- who is the source? Did this person really read this? I have serious doubts about the story. I think that both Charles and William would have something to say about the issue of precedence and that the Queen would listen! Camilla and Catherine are future Queens Consort. Seniority has something to do with precedence as well. Philip and Anne are senior royals who have spent lifetimes serving the crown and are due some respect.
Then, there is the issue of Beatrice and Eugenie's not being official members of the working royals.. There just are so many problems with the story.

[Nice Nofret]

Sophie Wessex does a proper court-curtsie (Hofknicks) it is with crossing the legs and having one knee in the back of the front one

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by misselle

I am not sure about the story posted in The Telegraph, and The Mail-- who is the source? Did this person really read this? I have serious doubts about the story. I think that both Charles and William would have something to say about the issue of precedence and that the Queen would listen! Camilla and Catherine are future Queens Consort. Seniority has something to do with precedence as well. Philip and Anne are senior royals who have spent lifetimes serving the crown and are due some respect.
Then, there is the issue of Beatrice and Eugenie's not being official members of the working royals.. There just are so many problems with the story.

Have a look at this thread - Order of Precedence; the topic of curtseying and precedence has been discussed there.
To be succinct, the article is nonsense; although blood Princesses (Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice, Eugenie and possibly, Louise) do have precedence over Princesses by marriage (Camilla, Kate, Sophie and others), it is only for private precedence - not official one.

The Official Ranking For Women:
- The Queen (the Sovereign)
- The Duchess of Cornwall (wife of the Heir Apparent)
- The Countess of Wessex (wife of the Sovereign's younger son)
- The Princess Royal (the Sovereign's daughter)
- The Duchess of Cambridge (the wife of the Sovereign's grandson)

The Private Ranking For Women 1: *
- The Queen
- The Princess Royal
- Princess Beatrice
- Princess Eugenie
- Lady Louise (assuming she is counted as a Royal Princess, which she legally is)
- Princess Alexandra
- The Duchess of Cornwall
- The Duchess of Cambridge
- The Countess of Wessex

The Private Ranking For Women 2: *
- The Queen
- The Duchess of Cornwall
- The Duchess of Cambridge
- The Countess of Wessex

While Private raning number "1" should be in operation considering 2005 edict, the official website of the British Monarch makes it clear that Camilla still has precedence immediately after the Queen, followed by, surprisingly, Kate (under normal circumstances, she should have been followed by Sophie, then Kate).

[MARG]

Originally Posted by SLV

There seem to be two ways of curtsying. With and without crossing one leg behind the other.
I think that not wearing tight skirts would help with the balance and therefor with the degree of elegance of the curtsy.

I also think the comparison between Sophie and Beatrice is a little unfair as Sophie's photo was taken front on and Beatrice's at a 45 degree angle.

That being said, Sophie has cultivated a natural grace commensurate with her age and experience.

[SLV]

Originally Posted by Nice Nofret

Sophie Wessex does a proper court-curtsie (Hofknicks) it is with crossing the legs and having one knee in the back of the front one

Is it an English curtsey then? Because the continental princesses, especially the Scandinavian ones, all curtsey without the crossing of the leg.

[kbk]

Artemisia, are queen consorts really obliged by the protocol to curtsy to queens regnant? Isn't that a wife takes the rank and precedence of her husband?

[Baroness of Books]

A queen consort does take the rank and precedence of her husband and upon the death of the king, would have to curtsy by protocol to a queen regnant. Case in point was Queen Mary as queen consort/dowager who curtsied to Queen Elizabeth when she came to the throne.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by kbk

Artemisia, are queen consorts really obliged by the protocol to curtsy to queens regnant? Isn't that a wife takes the rank and precedence of her husband?

Baroness of Books already gave a great answer; I'll just elaborate a little more.

Think of US Presidents and First Ladies; the latter may be the "First Lady" of the country (taking her rank and precedence from her husband) but she isn't the in the office or doing the ruling - she is just a spouse. Thus, she is equal to other First Ladies, but not to Presidents.

Similarly, Queens Regnant are Heads of States, whereas Queens Consort are just wives of Head of States; as such, the former outranks the latter.
A Queen Regnant (or any Head of State, whether elected or reigning) doesn't have to curtsey to anyone at all. A Queen Consort takes her rank from her husband and as such is, usually, the first lady in the Kingdom; however, they are still outranked by Queens Regnant, so yes, they do have to curtsey to them.

An easy way to remember who must curtsey to whom (this is true for Britain and most European Monarchies):
- A Queen Regnant (or any Head of State) doesn't curtsey to anyone.
- A Queen Consort must only curtsey to Reigning Heads of State (Kings and Queens Regnant).
- A Queen Mother must only curtsey to Reigning Heads of State (Kings and Queens Regnant), as well as the current Queen Consort.
- A Queen Dowager must only curtsey to Reigning Heads of State (Kings and Queens Regnant), as well as the current Queen Consort, and the Queen Mother.

[KittyAtlanta]

From today's news:
Kate Must Curtsey to 'Blood Princesses' | ABC News Blogs - Yahoo!

[ReginaB]

My head is swarming with details about curtsying and bowing...and protocol. I knew there were rules for everything, but this thread is awesome. I can't imagine living with so many rules like this. But I'm utterly fascinated by it all.