Bowing and Curtseying


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
A deep and respectful bow from the Thai Crown Prince to the Queen of Spain.

Picture from thai.palaces.net

 
Curtseying....

Hi,

Last year, when The Queen and Prince Philip visited Calgary, my then 87 year old mother was introduced to the Prince in a small 'walkabout'..
He held out his hand and my mother shook it and then said to him, "I want to curtsey to you".
He said it wasn't necessary but Mom said, "Hold on!" and taking his other hand, she managed a bit of a bob.
He smiled and said, "Very nice, madam".....
As he walked away, my mother said to those around her, "At least I didn't land on my ass!!"
Prince Philip (who must have heard this, as my mother is partly deaf and talks loud) turned around, smiled and gave her a thumbs up......

Larry ;)
 
Vecchiolarry said:
Hi,

Last year, when The Queen and Prince Philip visited Calgary, my then 87 year old mother was introduced to the Prince in a small 'walkabout'..
He held out his hand and my mother shook it and then said to him, "I want to curtsey to you".
He said it wasn't necessary but Mom said, "Hold on!" and taking his other hand, she managed a bit of a bob.
He smiled and said, "Very nice, madam".....
As he walked away, my mother said to those around her, "At least I didn't land on my ass!!"
Prince Philip (who must have heard this, as my mother is partly deaf and talks loud) turned around, smiled and gave her a thumbs up......

Larry ;)

Awesome story, Larry. Thanks for sharing it. :) :D
Personally I have no problem with bowing and curteseying. I have my dignity and pride and I will never 'bow' to someone more powerful or stronger. However I would like to show my respect, say for Her Majesty or Prince of Wales or the Duchess of Cornwall... and would curtesey. It's about the respect for me. However, even if I had ever met a Royal, I am not very fond of or I don't particularly respect, I would still curtesey, simply because it's part of a tradition. While you can have your private opinion of a person, you must, imo, show your respect for the country and its traditions by following them.
 
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I'm dreadfully sorry If i sound rude, but what is all this rubbish I am reading about Americans being the only ones not required to bow/curtsey? A lot of other countries do not have to bow/ curtsey as well. I certainly do not and hey guess what? I am not American!

btw- i love you americans, just making an observation :)
 
bad_barbarella said:
Who has to curtsey to who :S
This is a very simplified explanation, but as a general rule one curtseys to members of princely, royal and imperial families (anyone with a style such as HH, HSH, HGDH, HRH, HIH, HI&RH, HM or HIM). For people who are members of such families, one curtseys to those who outrank you, so for instance, the hypothetical HH Princess Sophia would curtsey to HRH Princess Louise who would curtsey to HIM Empress Eleanor. The only caveat is that reigning royals outrank non-reigning, so HRH Princess Alexa of Greece ought to curtsey to HSH Prince Albert II of Monaco, even though her HRH technically outranks his HSH. Similarly, HI&RH Archduchess Sophia von Habsburg's style technically outranks HRH Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg, but he is a reinging Grand Duke, so she would curtsey to him nonetheless. Also, Catholics curtsey to the Pope and I believe Cardinals, but you'd better check with someone about that, I could be mistaken. I hope that is a pretty clear explanation.
 
Just wonder: did Alexandra curtsey to Mary?
 
magnik said:
Just wonder: did Alexandra curtsey to Mary?

There are so many Alexandras and Marys that I am not quite sure who you're referring to...so here are some answers, choose the best one.:)

HM Queen *Dowager* Alexandra of Great Britain and Ireland would not have curtseyed to HM Queen Mary of the United Kingdom, because both were queens.

HRH Princess Alexandra of the United Kingdom would have curtseyed to HM Queen Mary of the United Kingdom.

HH Princess Alexandra, Countess of Fredreksbourg (I hope I spelled that right) most probably technically ought to curtsey to HRH Crown Princess Mary of Denmark; however, since Alexandra was a HRH for years, and a veteran of the royal family, such a formality is probably not observed.

I can't think of any other Alexandra/Mary pairs. I hope I found the ones you meant.
 
HRH Elizabeth said:
HH Princess Alexandra, Countess of Fredreksbourg (I hope I spelled that right) most probably technically ought to curtsey to HRH Crown Princess Mary of Denmark; however, since Alexandra was a HRH for years, and a veteran of the royal family, such a formality is probably not observed.

Thanks for these options HRH Elizabeth, but I've choose this one with Princess Alexandra of Denmark, Countess of Frederiksborg and CPss Mary :D
 
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Prince Philip welcoming Queen Sonja with a kiss and a hand-kiss :rolleyes:

source:photoshot
 
Princess Máxima makes a révérence to the King of the Belgians
curtsy1.jpg


Princess Máxima makes a révérence to Queen Sirikit of Thailand
curtsy2.jpg


Princess Máxima never makes a révérence to her mother-in-law. They always warmly greet each other with a kiss.
curtsy3.jpg


Pictures: ANP Press Agency Netherlands / bucketed on my own webspace
 
Isn't weird to courtsey? I don't think I would do that to anyone, especially women who are now married to princes and were the same as we were before they got married. Why should I do that? I think that calling them your highness is good enough for me.
 
It is not obliged at all at most courts. It is just a mark of respect which was quite common and widespread. Not only to Sovereigns, but also to the local Lord or Lady, to the Master or Mastress, etc.

There are more 'oldfahioned things' like gunsalutes and bells tolling at the birth of a royal infant. Or a lady with an ermine mantle of 6 metres long.

Why? Just because we like it.


:lol:
 
That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.
 
BeatrixFan said:
That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.

Maids always made a knick with their legs when leaving a room with the baron or baroness. Men immediately removed their hats or caps when the local noble passed you. There are plenty of pictures which still shows this custom until ca. 1965-1970 in the Netherlands. There is a popular program on Dutch TV called 'Andere Tijden' ('Different Times') which shows the amazing changes from the earliest reports around 1895 until now.
 
I apologise, I didn't realise you were only talking about the Netherlands. In Britain, curtseys and bows were reserved only for Royalty and the hat doffing thing was very different. Men doffed their hats to all ladies regardless of status.
 
Oh I do. And I expect all the men to doff their hats to me too. Well, the pretty ones anyway.
 
BeatrixFan said:
That's not quite true. You never curtseyed to "the local Lord or Lady" and domestic staff were never obliged to curtsey to their employers. That Upstairs Downstairs bobbing is the work of costume drama.

We have a Local Lord and Lady and everyone rises when the Dowager Lady enters the room and many nod their heads at her. My grandmother was Her housekeep and bobed to her along with the majority of the staff. Though they only ever done a propoer curtsey if a Royal visitor was present which happened on several occasions. It is also customary to curtsey to a Cardinal or high anglican bishop on very very formal occasions, and to Governor-Generals.:)
 
It was actually quite common for the "help" to slightly curtsy to their employers back in the day. Watch Titanic for a good example of that. When Rose is getting her corset laced and Ruth [Rose's mom] came in the room and told Trudy the maid to go make some tea, she said "Yes ma'am" and bobbed a curtsy. This was 1912 and with the very rich from the USA. I've seen it in films set in the 1920s and 30s as well. It wasn't a pronounced curtsy like you'd see one give to a Princess or a Queen, but it was an acknowledgment that they held a position of authority over you.


I don't know how common it is now to have that happen, but it wasn't all that long ago that it was considered common practice.
 
As I said, period dramas have their own rules. If you read any etiquette guide from the 1900s right through to the present day, you'll see that staff don't bow or curtsey to their employers unless their employers are Royalty. If people do then it's of course up to them but it certainly isn't required. I quote firstly from "Lady Troubridge's Book of Etiquette 1929";

There is nothing more off putting at a dinner party than obseqious servants. Servants should not bow or curtsey to their employers. If an employer insists that their staff should perform dramatic deference, the staff should politely decline. Such a request would only display arrogance in the employer.

And from "Etiquette, A Guide for Modern Ladies, 1911";

Bows and Curtseys are reserved only for those of Royal birth and should not be expected of staff by their employers. Bows should be made from the waist and curtseys should be deep. They are executed twice, once upon meeting the Royal Personage and again upon leaving the presence of the Royal Personage.

And then from "The Guide to Etiquette and Modern Manners, 1989";

The modern belief that servants have always bobbed in and out of grand parlours is a rumour started by period dramas and low budget movies from America. Staff certainly shouldn't be expected to bow or curtsey to their employers and such displays are saved for Royalty. Bows are executed from the neck and are now optional. The requirement to bow and curtsey as Royalty passes seems to have been forgotten, along with all other forms of good manners. Curtseys are intended to be quick bobs and large sweeping curtseys a la Mrs Thatcher are best left for the stage.

I rest my case ;)
 
Love Sense and Sensibility though- all those little polite bows and curtsies to each other. However, have seen personally most people slightly head bowing only to the royals now. Sad? I don't know, but life is changing obviously and we are becoming more egalitarian.
 
Question about Prince Philip

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered...

Where does Prince Philip fall in the order for bowing? Since he is married to Queen Elizabeth does he react to other royals as a king or a prince? Meaning no bowing?

Thanks
 
He'll bow to his wife and any King, Queen, Emperor, Empress, reigning Grand Duke or Grand Duchess.
 
I have seen just once Princess Maxima curtsied. :(
To King of Thailand.
 
Lord Sosnowitz said:
I have seen just once Princess Maxima curtsied. :(
To King of Thailand.
Maxima sometimes she curtsied (look on Henri M. posts on the top) and sometimes she just giving a kiss. It depend where and with who she is.
 
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Maxima doesn't always curtsey, depending on the person or on the event itself.
However, Maxima isn't really used to the curtsey stuff, as it isn't necessary in The Netherlands.
Still, she does it quite good (perhaps a less better than Mette Marit does)
 
Anni-Frid Lyngstad and Agnetha Fältskog curtseying dramatically in front of King Carl-Gustav and Silvia Sommerlath on their Pre-wedding-concert

source: AbbaOnTV.com
 
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