Bowing and Curtseying

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

You would expect Lalla Meryem, the Crown Princely couple and others to do so. They are princes' and princess'.

Maria Teresa surpirses me as I've before just seen her shake hands and kiss cheeks with the Queen. No curtsey in sight.

The traditional norms (amongst themselves) appear to vary on occasion and thus can lead to confusion for those of us observing.



Unnecessary and rediculous. They are equals.

I do not believe the Grand Duchess curtsied to the Queen today. Just the hand shake and kiss.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Alexey 1904

What would MM's curtsey to Camilla be classified as?

I would classify it as a mistake. I hope she wasn't the one advising Charlene.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

I do not believe the Grand Duchess curtsied to the Queen today. Just the hand shake and kiss.

Thanks for that. I thought it to sound rather obscure.

Thanks for bringing me up to speed that this little clip had been posted. I appreciate it.

No problem. Happy to answer a fellow poster :)

[Esmerelda]

Prince Philip bows to the Emperor.
http://imageupper.com/i/?S0200010090...73581742528427

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

Consorts to curtsey to Heads of State - they aren't of the same rank. Charlene would therefore be correct in curtseying to The Queen just as Philip would bow to the various monarchs who are Heads of State but also to those who are crowned as Queens' Consort. He would regularly be seen giving a bow to the Queen Mother - a crowned Queen while he is only a Prince. It isn't only position but also title that matters.

That was my opinion as well. I distinctly remember years ago seeing a photograph of Princess Grace curtsying to QEII.

I always assumed that it was because Grace was a Serene Highness and a Princess, and thus subordinate in rank to HM whether or not she was the wife of a Head of State.

In any case, Princess Charlene's reverence was elegant, flawlessly executed.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

Actually, the Emperor bows to quite a few people. Not because he has to (as a reigning Emperor, he outranks pretty much everyone else), but because he chooses to as per Japanese tradition. For instance, when he was recently discharged from hospital following an operation, both he and Empress Michiko bowed to the doctors who had performed the surgery (needless to say, the royal couple got even lowers bows from them).

As you have rightly noted, Heads of State do not bow or curtsey to each other. Their spouses, however must bow to other Heads of State by protocol. Thus, while Queen Elizabeth and King Harald of Norway don't have to curtsey/bow to each other, Prince Philip can bow to King Harald, and Queen Sonja - to Queen Elizabeth. In addition, male royals (whether monarchs or consorts) usually slightly bow in front of female consorts of fellow royals as well, although they are certainly not required to by protocol.

Princess Charlene had to curtsey to Queen Elizabeth and chose to curtsey to Prince Philip as well; both were correct by protocol rules. However, her decision to curtsey to Prince Charles is purely mark of respect; she most certainly didn't have to as consort of a Head of State.

thanks artemisia and Iluvbertie for these very complete explanations. it does make sense that charlene curtsied the queen, yet i found it somehow odd as i doubt the rest of the consorts did so (although again, all of them are older than charlene and with comparable years as queens as
elizabeth, and probably know elizabeth well. ).
on the other hand, i'd include the grand duchess in the last group of women, she herself has been grand duchess for a while now and probably knows elizabeth well. maybe the difference has to do with personal knowledge of the royal you meet: if you are friends, a hug/kiss may be appropriate.
on the other hand, i guess it's better to be safe than sorry, hence why charlene curtsied to all senior royals. thank godness at least she isn't curtsying to same-rank royals, like MM!

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

In any case, Princess Charlene's reverence was elegant, flawlessly executed.

i certainly agree. it was a nicely done, deep curtsy. it reminds me of the curtsy MM once did to the queen of england as well, very low, gracious curtsy. i guess they both have been clearly practising and now they just like to show off their newly-acquired techniques! :)

[Moonmaiden23]

I saw a photo of Mette-Marit's first curtsy to QEII. I thought it a bit theatrical and over the top...and I remember there was quite a bit of discussion on the message boards.

I think she was so nervous and concerned about getting it perfectly that she overdid it.

I'm sure that she is probably a pro at it by now.

[Esmerelda]

Does Prince Philip bow to all the monarchs then? I've only seen a picture of him with the Emperor.

[Warren]

Instead of trying to over-complicate matters when the customary rules of protocol don't appear to fit the circumstance, why not take them for what they were? That is, purely personal and special gestures of respect and deference to an 86-year old reigning Monarch celebrating 60 years on the throne, and in her own home (whether Windsor Castle or BP), from one member of the royal caste to another. Beatrix's wide-armed greeting wasn't "protocol" either, it was personal.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Alexey 1904

What would MM's curtsey to Camilla be classified as?

A sign of respect she didn't have to show, but chose to.

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I saw a photo of Mette-Marit's first curtsy to QEII. I thought it a bit theatrical and over the top...and I remember there was quite a bit of discussion on the message boards.

Mette-Marit always performs a full, deep curtsey. It's not wrong; in fact, it used to be the correct way. Nowadays, few ladies curtsey in that manner, but it most certainly isn't wrong, over the top, or theatrical. Charlene's curtsey to Queen Elizabeth was quite similar to Mette-Marit's, but her curtsey to Prince Charles was a more "modern" one - just slightly bending knees.

Originally Posted by Esmerelda

Does Prince Philip bow to all the monarchs then? I've only seen a picture of him with the Emperor.

By protocol, Prince Philip has to bow to all reigning Monarchs. He also usually slightly bows (and kisses the hand) of female consorts of the Monarchs as a sign of respect; otherwise, he wouldn't be required to bow to consorts as they are his equals.

[Moonmaiden23]

Artemisia, perhaps we are not discussing the same photo of Mette-Marit. The one I am referencing displayed the Princess with her arms splayed rather awkwardly out to the sides as she was curtsying. It was her very first meeting with the Queen, perhaps she was simply nervous. In any case MM is certainly a graceful, confident curtsy at this stage in her Royal career.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

Artemisia, perhaps we are not discussing the same photo of Mette-Marit. The one I am referencing displayed the Princess with her arms splayed rather awkwardly out to the sides as she was curtsying. It was her very first meeting with the Queen, perhaps she was simply nervous. In any case MM is certainly a graceful, confident curtsy at this stage in her Royal career.

I was referring to this curtsey by Mette-Marit (she was pregnant at the time).
I assume you mean this one from her very first meeting with the Queen. I always thought that was one of the most graceful curtseys I have ever seen.

[Baroness of Books]

I think M-M's initial curtsey to the Queen was one of the most elegant I've ever seen as well and reminds me of such obeisances at formal court presentations of the past. Maybe to some it seemed too OTT, but I can understand why M-M performed a grand gesture to a highly respected and venerated monarch.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

I was referring to this curtsey by Mette-Marit (she was pregnant at the time).
I assume you mean this one from her very first meeting with the Queen. I always thought that was one of the most graceful curtseys I have ever seen.

No, it was neither of those...you are right, she is as graceful as a swan in both curtsies!

[Esmerelda]

Originally Posted by IloveCP

Here is Mary curtseying to King Harald at 3:51.Harald also kinda mocks the curtsey!

Frederik & Mary Official Visit to the USA (2011) -1 - YouTube

King Harald also 'returned' a curtsey to his wife when they danced at the banquet for his 70th birthday. 48 seconds in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlAfo...e_gdata_player

It seems like an involuntary response, almost.

[PrincessApple]

I must say, I like Mette-Marit's first curtsey to Queen Elizabeth. I appreciate why it would be over the top to many, but it reminds me of the pomp and circumstance that once surrounded royalty. And, judging from the photo, Mette-Marit performed a very graceful curtsey...and Elizabeth is one deserving monarch.

[qzwxec]

Originally Posted by kittencrews

was Ernst frowned upon when he kissed the Queen's cheek?? I don't remember hearing anything about it...

Why should he ? He's her cousin. His Great-Great Grandfather and her Great-Great Grandfather were brothers I believe.

[qzwxec]

Originally Posted by mybags

I wouldn't think so, as Ernst-August and the Queen are cousins. An interesting fact is that E-A would be King of England if females were not allowed to inherit the throne and they were allowed to marry Catholics. By the way, E-A asked the Queen's permission to marry Caroline because of his great respect for the Queen.

Actually, the male line STUART heir would be King, and he is HRH Franz, The Duke of Bavaria, Head of the Bavarian Royal House.

[qzwxec]

Originally Posted by KatieLouise

I don't know if I've ever seen an American President bow to a monarch... if they do, does anyone have any pictures of this? :)

No way they do this. Heads of State do not bow to one another, or curtsey to one another. As much of a Royalist as I am, if I ever heard of or saw our President do this, I would be incensed. He represents us, and our Sovereignty, and no monarch is allowed to infringe upon my Sovereignty as an American Citizen.

That said, I am a royalist and wish we had our own monarch.

[qzwxec]

Originally Posted by Australian

From my understanding- The President does not bow to any royals. But in that picture, he wasnt a president, he was a little boy so he was required to bow.

No one, is "required" to bow or curtsey and the Queen is too dignified to ever say anything to anyone who doesn't do it.

People bow or curtsey to the Queen or any Royal for that matter because they want to and because its decent custom and considered good manners. At least in all the European monarchies its this way. In Arabic monarchies it might be a different matter, as well as in African & other places. In those places there may be laws requiring people to do this. But in Britain and other European monarchies there are no laws requiring on to bow or curtsey.