Bowing and Curtseying

[MARG]

The Princess Royal always does what is correct which is why she curtsied to the Duchess of Cornwall at Ascot. So too, the Duchess of Alba.

Personal likes and dislikes are irrelevant. You are paying your respects to the person holding the higher rank just like in the military (where it is called compliments) and nobody seems to think that is demeaning.

[Madame Royale]

I recall the Crown Princess of Norway gesturing what seemed to be a slight curtsy to the Duchess of Cornwall back in 2006, but even so, there was no reason for her to do so other than what she believed was appropriate. Technically, Mette-Marit is entirely Camilla's equal thus it is not required nor is it expected that she should curtsy.

Then again, MM also curtsied to President Obama (the office of) so it would appear she is rather fond of this charming observance.

The point I am making is that there is a liberty which can be taken by some, and occasionally is. The British system is a little different to the rest of Europe, need that be said.

I recently saw footage of the Infanta's Christina and Elena during the Dutch State Visit to Spain during the 80's or early 90's. Both curtsied to Queen Beatrix but neither curtsied to Prince Claus.

The Duchess of Alba being an aristocrat would naturally curtsy to Camilla.

just like in the military (where it is called compliments) and nobody seems to think that is demeaning.

Well made point.

[Esmerelda]

Mette Marit is a little eccentric about curtseying though. I think she also once curtseyed to Crown Princess Victoria.

[MRSJ]

But.... My question is William and Kate are not the same rank as CP couples so should they curtesy bow ? I've seen Anne curtesy to Camilla and I imagine it's the same thing bc they are not of same rank and Anne ususally does what is correct with protocol and such

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

I would think that Anne being The Princess Royal and the daughter of The Monarch, would be equal to Camillaand would not have to curtsey to her.
But, I don't know what the fine points are on that situation; and if Anne does curtsey to Camilla, then she must know what she's doing!!!

Personally, I would bow only to The Queen and Prince Philip, and have in Calgary in 2005; but not to the rest...

Larry

[Esmerelda]

Has Princess Anne ever curtseyed to a foreign heir e.g Haakon, Victoria, Frederik?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Letizia curtseying to Sheikha Mozah who is Her Highness but not HRH and to Queen Rania
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...RVb62/x610.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...CXbi1/x610.jpg

[Charlotte_Aster]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Letizia curtseying to Sheikha Mozah who is Her Highness but not HRH and to Queen Rania
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...RVb62/x610.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...CXbi1/x610.jpg

I think she curtsied because she is the wife of a head of state/monarch. It doesn't matter whether she is HH. She should also curtsy to Albert, although he is HSH.

[Iluvbertie]

Anne has curtseyed to both of Charles' wives simply because they are/were Charles' wife and as such senior to her.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Esmerelda

Mette Marit is a little eccentric about curtseying though. I think she also once curtseyed to Crown Princess Victoria.

Of course Victoria is the Crown Princess in her own right whereas Metter Marit is only a Crown Princess by marriage.

[carlota]

MM seems very liberal in the way she curtsies to people who are theoretically her equals.
i wish letizia would curtsy lower. the curtsy to sheikha mozah does seem a bit poor, although a video would be a bit more telling. i remember how she used to curtsy low and deep during her first years...

[Esmerelda]

Originally Posted by carlota

MM seems very liberal in the way she curtsies to people who are theoretically her equals.
i wish letizia would curtsy lower. the curtsy to sheikha mozah does seem a bit poor, although a video would be a bit more telling. i remember how she used to curtsy low and deep during her first years...

I though Letitia was one the 'lowest curtsiers'. But I haven't seen many recent pictures.

[Blue_Stocking]

This might be off topic, but what would happen if someone like me, who is wheelchair bound, were to meet a royal? Would I be expected to a small bow instead of a curtsey? Does anyone know?

[Charlotte_Aster]

Originally Posted by Blue_Stocking

This might be off topic, but what would happen if someone like me, who is wheelchair bound, were to meet a royal? Would I be expected to a small bow instead of a curtsey? Does anyone know?

This actually happened recently: Ana Maria Mutate received the Cervantes Award and she greeted rather warmly by the Spanish RF. As a matter of fact, they bowed to her (in a manner)
Spanish Royals Host Lunch in Ocassion of the '2011 Cervantes Award' - Pictures - Zimbio

[AnaC]

Originally Posted by Esmerelda

I though Letitia was one the 'lowest curtsiers'. But I haven't seen many recent pictures.

The Spanish Royals(including Letizia) make old-fashioned, very low curtseys but Infanta Cristina and the Princess' curtsey to the Sheika was very small(on the gala dinner the Princess didn't curtsey to Mozah), probably because the Sheika Mozah is HH. (Infanta Elena and Cristina didn't curtsey to HRH Prince Claus of the Netherlands)

[Markos1]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

This actually happened recently: Ana Maria Mutate received the Cervantes Award and she greeted rather warmly by the Spanish RF. As a matter of fact, they bowed to her (in a manner)
Spanish Royals Host Lunch in Ocassion of the '2011 Cervantes Award' - Pictures - Zimbio

While not very informed regarding the rules of it, I'm impressed with the Spanish royals. The appropriate thing to do when meeting a person in a wheelchair is to lean down so that you can greet them at eye level. How nice to see them observe this protocol, especially since they were greeting Ana Maria Mutate as the winner of the award they were there to celebrate. Very nice.

[MRSJ]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tsey-whom.html

Almost right......but Edward is not junior to William so Sophie wouldn't curtesy to Kate unless William was in room and Edward not, but even when just women Kate curtesy's to Sophie until Charles is King and then everyone curtesy's to Kate as wife of heir......

[Renata4711]

I think curtseying and bowing is totally outmoded and unnecessary.

Military salutes are another matter.

[Diarist]

Originally Posted by Blue_Stocking

This might be off topic, but what would happen if someone like me, who is wheelchair bound, were to meet a royal? Would I be expected to a small bow instead of a curtsey? Does anyone know?

A little bow - or whatever you can manage would be fine; although I can really only speak for the BRF,[ I am sure all other Royal Families and Crowned heads are exactly the same,] all members are very well practised in dealing with disabled people and indeed any members of the public who meet them. If you can't even manage a little bow [broken neck and in hospital for example] any little gesture of respect you are able to make would be fine - even 'Good Morning Your Majesty' after you have been introduced / presented if that is physically all you are able to manage.

As a side issue, bowing and curtesying is become slightly less common. Traditionally, all subjects [i.e. British, Australian, Canadian etc] who met members of the BRF were required to bow /curtsey and by convention if you came from a country where there was a Crowned Head [Spain, Monaco etc] it was always regarded as appropriate to extend to the BRF the same courtesy you would extend to your own Monarch etc. Americans of course were not duty bound to bow etc, because their appropriate greeting is to refer to their head of State as 'Mr President' - in other words, letting your tongue do the work of your 'neck or your knee'. Nancy Reagan however did a small bow of acknowlegement back in 1981 when she met the BRF at the Wedding of Charles and Diana.

That's the 'traditional' position. Nowadays, the trend is that if you meet most members of the BRF, it is not compulsory to bow/ curtsey anyway. At ANY occasion when a member of the BRF is present Royal Aides will brief you beforehand and tell you whether to curtsey etc and how to address the person concerned: Ma'am, Sir etc. the general rule seems to be that if you are individually presented to the Queen/ Prince Phillip or some of the senior [in age] Royals, a bow or curtsey will be required. However, if the Queen stops during a walkabout to talk to you, then it is NOT necessary to bow/ curtsey. Similarly, if the Queen and Prince Philip are [say] making a visit to a factory or children's nursery and 'drop by' the factory floor, nursery etc where people are actively working / teaching etc] it is not necessary to bow or curtesy. Again you will be guided by a Royal Aide as to what is appropriate behaviour.

As a rule, Prince Edward and particularly the Princess Royal tend not to require a bow/ curtsey and you will be informed of this - part of the reason is that the Princess Royal apparently dislikes 'all forms of fuss' and indeed many of her engagements have a kind of 'business-like feel' to them - e.g when she chairs charity meetings or is present at a British Olympic Association meeting. Princes William and Harry seem to take this informal approach. Princess Michael of Kent however is according to press reports in the newspapers VERY keen on receiving a bow/ curtsey and was also the subject of quite a stinging article in the Times some years ago when she apparently ordered an interior decorator to come down off a ladder and curtesy to her. [Which the Times' etiquette expert thought was wrong.] [Incidentally, Princess Michael is the only Royal I have known who specifies what sort of flowers [Orchids for choice!] that she requires to be in her bouquet].

There used to be a strict rule that all players on the Centre Court at Wimbledon [of all Nationalities, including those who were citizens of a country without a monarchy/crowned head etc] all had to perform a quick bow/curtsey to the representative Royal in the Royal Box [usually the Duke of Kent and the Duchess as well as in the past Princess Diana etc]. However, the Duke of Kent let it be known last year [or was it the year before? - time flies so fast!] that it was NO LONGER necessary to bow/ curtsey. Oddly enough, the London papers reported that many players were a bit upset about this abolition, as they regarded it as 'all part of Wimbledon's charm'!

I did however notice that when Camilla went to Hampton Court Flower show last year, those ladies presented to her all curtseyed.

If you are lucky enough to be invited to stay at Windsor / Sandringham etc, the rules change slightly - guests are required to curtesy/ bow to the Queen, Prince Philip, Senior Royals etc BUT the rule is that you only have to do so ONCE each day - there is apparently a desire amongst guests to seek out the appropirate royals as soon as possible each day in order to 'get the curtsey over with'. After breakfast is the best time - the Royal Family DO NOT join their guests at breakfast as a general rule - they 'breakfast in their rooms'..

A couple of other points- unless at a very important formal occasion, women only have to execute a quick 'bob' as a curtsey; the Formal Court Curtsey died out years ago [bascially, you sink low, having positioned your knee in a special way to prevent the 'dreaded wobble]. Royal Brides tend to perform a type of low curtsey just after they marry when they curtsey to the Queen for the first time. [as did Catherine on Friday].

Another point - where the BRF is concerned, men only have to perform what is known as the 'Coburg' bow - from the neck only! Only head waiters [at appropriately grand restaurants presumably!] are reputedly required to bow from the waist!

One final point - I was taught to do a 'Court Curtsey' some years ago - why, I do not know, as Presentation at Court [where it would have been required] had died out years previously. Despite knowing how to do so, I have NEVER been required to perform a Court Curtsey,[ as I did not plan to become one of the Queen's daughters-in-law!!] although I have had the opportunity of doing 'a little bob' many times.

Hope this helps,

Alex

PS - Hope you saw the Queen when she came to Cambridge the other day Bluestocking!

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Renata4711

I curtseying and bowing is totally outmoded and unnecessary.

Military salutes are another matter.

N0! They are exactly the same thing, an historical custom for which nothing better has eventuated.

In the British and Commonwealth forces one salutes "The Queen's/King's Commission" not the individual officer.