Bowing and Curtseying

[MARG]

Mmmmm . . . . I was applying the same rule as that stated by BeatrixFan on page 9 with the Duke of Edinborough bowing to any Queen, King, etc. It seemed to me the same situation. Well actually not the same as he was born a royal Prince and all of those other "Spouses" are only royal by marriage.

 

[kimebear]

I believe that BeatrixFan was incorrect when he made that post. Also, to my knowledge, the only time that Prince Phillip bowed to his wife was at her coronation. He bowed to her as his newly crowned monarch and that was it.

 

[LadyFinn]

Ladies curtseying Queen Sofia, as she and princess Letizia visit charity market Nuevo Futuro at Rastrillo
SeegerPress
SeegerPress

 

[scooter]

I found this video of the Royal Ascot 2008 - towards the end (min. 4) you see the Queen aproaching her family, Beatrice and Eugenie do not curtsey but at around 4:08 you can see Princess Anne curtseying to -I think -Camilla
YouTube - Guests at the Royal Ascot Festival 2008

I think the Princess Royal appears to be curtseying to her mother the Queen. I did not see Camilla in the frame at all. Frankly, I have a hard time imagining the Princess Royal, born a Princess, curtseying to Camilla. I dont remember Princess Anne, or for that matter Princess Margaret in the same position, ever curtseying to Diana, either.

 

[kimebear]

Actually, that was Anne curtseying to Camilla. It was quite a hot topic at the time. I don't know about Anne curtseying to Diana after her marriage, but there was a story about Anne being annoyed with Diana for curtseying to her inside the palace before Diana married Charles.

As far as Beatrice and Eugenie are concerned, they had just been in the procession with the Queen earlier and most likely would have given her a curtsey earlier in the day. I would imagine that there are only so many times during the day one can curtsey to your grandmother!

 

[wbenson]

I believe that BeatrixFan was incorrect when he made that post. Also, to my knowledge, the only time that Prince Phillip bowed to his wife was at her coronation. He bowed to her as his newly crowned monarch and that was it.

That's the only time I've ever seen Philip bow, either. He also doesn't salute as the Queen gets out of the carriage at the State Opening of Parliament (as Charles would when he attended).

 

[Jacknch]

You are correct but exception HAS to be made for the Royals.

Princess Anne is not curtseying to the Duchess of Cornwall - she is joking about something (I guess about high heels or someone's height) and bends her knees in the process. Had she been curseying it would have been deeper, slightly more ungainly and her back slightly bowed forward.

 

[magnik]

When Diana's coffin was carry in front of BP Anne and even Margaret I think bows (by heads) to her.

 

[MARG]

Princess Anne is not curtseying to the Duchess of Cornwall . . . . . .

Sorry Jacknch and Scooter. 4:08 It looks like a duck. It walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck! By jove, I do believe it is a duck or, or more precisely, a curtsey!

Regardless of your personal disbelief, you really are seeing what your think you can't be seeing.

The Princess Royal is not called royal for nothing! She is the arbitor of all things correct and on this occasion I believe she was making an unequivocal personal statement.

Like those in the military, you pay compliments to the rank (in this case Crown Princess) or the Queen's Commission held, not the person holding it!

 

[scooter]

Why Marg, are you suggesting that The Princess Royal was curtseying to Camilla's rank not Camilla? Also, I am curious, where exactly is it written in the Magna Carta that the Princess Royal 'is the arbiter of all things correct'. If you could instruct me in the exact wording of the law illustrating this, I would be appreciative.

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Hello Everyone,

I am quite confused here....
As I understood it, The Queen has placed Anne and Alexandra ahead of everyone else as they are both born princesses. I'm not sure about Beatrice and Eugenie though.
Why would the Princess Royal curtsey to Camilla, a mere Duchess? Even if she is married to the Prince of Wales, she chose to be known as 'Duchess of Conwall'; and so my question is: "If Anne is 'the arbitor of all things correct', why would she do that?"....

Larry

 

[wbenson]

Camilla isn't a "mere Duchess." She is a princess as well. In fact, she is a peeress and Anne is not, so I would say that Princess + Duchess is greater than Princess (leaving aside the official precedence, where it really doesn't matter what one's title is, just who one is or is married to).

I also think that the placement of Anne and Alexandra ahead of everyone else was a more informal family precedence that seems to be based more on length of doing royal duties than anything else.

Although I'm not totally convinced it was a curtsey yet, either.

 

[kimebear]

There are currently two orders of precedence in the United Kingdom. One public and one private. After Camilla and Charles were married, the Queen changed the rules and declared that officially and publicly, Camilla ranked second, and privately Anne and Alexandra ranked above her.

So at a public function like Royal Ascot, precedence dictates that The Princess Royal curtsies to the title holder of The Princess of Wales. However, in private, The Princess Anne would not curtsey to The Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[MARG]

Why Marg, are you suggesting that The Princess Royal was curtseying to Camilla's rank not Camilla?

Not at all, just that those who get their knickers in a knot about Camilla need to know that either way Princess Ann would have "done the right thing", and make it totally unambiguous. No bones about it!

Also, I am curious, where exactly is it written in the Magna Carta that the Princess Royal 'is the arbiter of all things correct'.

Wow! Watch out for those knickers . . . in this case I am referring to Princess Ann the person. Where do you think Zara Phillips knowledge of the correct time and place to curtsey, shared earlier in this thread, came from? One classy lady to anther.

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for clearing all that up....
I had no idea that there were both public & private orders of precedence..
I guess Anne and Camilla know what they're doing, so I'll stay out of it!

Larry

 

[Winnie]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for clearing all that up....
I had no idea that there were both public & private orders of precedence..
I guess Anne and Camilla know what they're doing, so I'll stay out of it!

Larry

I agree -- the Queen taught her only daughter well and in turn the daughter taught her daughter. No matter what others think, the Queen is always correct on these "orders".

 

[giov]

Danish Royal family at the annual Royal Christmas Ballet. 14 12 2008
Princess Marie curtseying to Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik.
Bruno Press
Bruno Press

 

[crisscross1]

Marie looks sooo awkward. I would hate to go to all that trouble and have no one (seemingly) take any notice.

 

[magnik]

Poor.
She've done it too deep. Few pratcicing and will be better.

But thanks to this we can see her tummy.

 

[HRH MAZA]

Is there a video of princess marie curtseying to queen margrethe in this event??

 

[marmi]

She did go too deep, but she's got years to perfect it

 

[Warren]

A reminder that directly posting or attaching copyrighted images is ILLEGAL and against the Forum rules.
All such images will be removed to ensure that the owner of the Forums doesn't receive a lawsuit.

 

[carlota]

marie's curtsy was indeed quite weird. it looked like clinging onto the queen and henrik and it was way too low. i guess she just needs a bit more practising to look a bit more natural and not so forced.

 

[RoyalProtocol]

Remember back to Mary's curtsies when she was engaged they were awful as well and she always seemed to grab at the recipient's waist, perhaps the Danish princesses need lessons form someone other than their husbands

 

[PrincessofEurope]

Danish Royal family at the annual Royal Christmas Ballet. 14 12 2008
Princess Marie curtseying to Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik.
Bruno Press
Bruno Press

Goodness i actually thought poor Marie had stumbled and the Queen was catching her but they tend in Denmark to grab onto the royal in question that they curtseying to Mary does it as well. It is very similar in Spain were they also perform a deep curtsey but with abit less of the grap on for dear life hold

 

[sgl]

I also thought that it looked awkward when Marie grabbed on to the queen. When I first saw the photo, I actually thought that she was falling.

 

[Warren]

You can't judge what may have been a fluid movement from one split-second frame of a photograph.

 

[Next Star]

What kinda of curtsey is that? I don't understand it but atleast she respects the queen's postion by doing this acton everytime.

 

[HRH MAZA]

Hi!!!
I found a video of princess letizia curtseying to queen beatrix in youtube, but i dont know how to post it!!! Help!!

Thank you!!!!

 

[Jacknch]

Sorry Jacknch and Scooter. 4:08 It looks like a duck. It walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck! By jove, I do believe it is a duck or, or more precisely, a curtsey!

Regardless of your personal disbelief, you really are seeing what your think you can't be seeing.

The Princess Royal is not called royal for nothing! She is the arbitor of all things correct and on this occasion I believe she was making an unequivocal personal statement.

Like those in the military, you pay compliments to the rank (in this case Crown Princess) or the Queen's Commission held, not the person holding it!

I stand corrected! I was about to send the tape off to forensic detectives to see what they make of it! I think the fact that Anne took a few moments before she actually curtseyed and bobbed down with no bend of the neck makes it look less of a curtsey than a curtsey should.