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  #3501  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Princess Mary bows to Queen Camilla.

https://twitter.com/RE_DailyMail/sta...434112/video/1

A nice curtsy, as always, by the Crown Princess to the Queen Consort. It is nice to see that Queen Mathilde, Queen Rania and the Countess of Wessex were also present.
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  #3502  
Old 11-30-2022, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Princess Mary bows to Queen Camilla.

https://twitter.com/RE_DailyMail/sta...434112/video/1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
A nice curtsy, as always, by the Crown Princess to the Queen Consort. It is nice to see that Queen Mathilde. Queen Rania and the Countess of Wessex were also present.
And here Mary and Sophie curtsies to Queen Rania

https://twitter.com/CoutureRoyals/st...1W0_ipbiw&s=19
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  #3503  
Old 11-30-2022, 12:07 PM
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Were there any curtsies for Queen Mathilde?
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  #3504  
Old 11-30-2022, 12:35 PM
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Mary is already preparing her curtsy (see the movement with her left leg) while greeting Camilla with kisses on her cheeks.
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  #3505  
Old 12-04-2022, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Toledo View Post
If I recall protocol well, crown princes/heirs bow or curtsy to reigning monarchs that are heads of state. Not sure if princes from ruling monarchies have to do this to pretenders (the many former rulers that lost the country in WWI or WWII) or former monarchs (for example the Greek King and Queen).

Don't know if it was here or at Netty's that I read (before I stopped posting in the Forum in 2007/2008) that Prince Charles and Princess Diana had to curtsy Monaco's Princes Rainier and Grace because they were royals and head of a state but Caroline had to curtsy to them for being heirs/Princes of Wales.


But the Monaco royals are only His/Her Serene Highnesses.
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  #3506  
Old 12-04-2022, 12:56 PM
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Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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  #3507  
Old 12-09-2022, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
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  #3508  
Old 12-09-2022, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.

But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.

However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
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  #3509  
Old 12-18-2022, 11:16 AM
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Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
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  #3510  
Old 12-18-2022, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by valeas View Post
Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
The eldest two Wales children have been seen doing so already for some time. I can't remember Louis being in a public situation where he would need to do so yet.
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  #3511  
Old 12-18-2022, 04:34 PM
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Charlotte's first public curtsey at the age of 2 got quite a lot of press attention (and no she didn't have to do it but I can see how a 2 year old might not be iinti all the specifucs yet).

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...rlotte-curtsy/
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  #3512  
Old 12-18-2022, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
Diana curtsied to the Princess of Monaco white she was still Lady Diana Spencer...not as Princess of Wales.

I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess. Perhaps such protocol niceties didn't survive the post war upheaval, because it sure doesn't seem to be the norm now..even though I did see newly married Charlene curtsy to the Duchess of Cornwall in 2012.

But Princess Charlene of Monaco, curtsying to Princesses Kate, Stephanie(Lux) Marie-Chantal or Victoria? Can't picture it.

Princess Caroline has perfect manners, both her mother and her governesses were sticklers.
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  #3513  
Old 12-18-2022, 08:10 PM
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That's what I like with the Dutch royals, including the king & queen, protocol is very simple, no curtsey in the country only with foreign state visits protocol applies.
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  #3514  
Old 12-18-2022, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess.
In most cases she should, because HSH is a lesser rank than HRH. Of course it also depends on the circumstance and the proximity of the HSH to the throne such as the case with HSH The Princess of Monaco, who is a consort to a reigning monarch and therefore equal with every other royal consort regardless.

Even in the BRF there are theoretically rules about which HRH members of the family curtsy to others, depending on who is in the room at the time, although I don't remember seeing photos where this protocol was actually observed.

Caroline should absolutely have curtsied to Diana as HRH The Princess of Wales and it's en etiquette faux pas not to have.
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  #3515  
Old 12-18-2022, 09:47 PM
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So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?

Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them??
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  #3516  
Old 12-18-2022, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?

Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them??

No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.


Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilège du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.
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  #3517  
Old 12-19-2022, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.


Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilège du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.


She curtsied to Charles and Camilla when they were Prince of Wales/Duchess of Cornwall though. I assumed the same as you until I saw that.

https://youtu.be/ukSh5vJu-nc
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  #3518  
Old 12-19-2022, 02:22 AM
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I think Charlene forgot as a new Consort that she didn't need to curtsey as not only were they no longer the royal family of her entire life, but contemporaries as she herself was now a royal Consort.
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  #3519  
Old 12-19-2022, 04:01 AM
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IMO Monaco always is a bit messy when it comes to protocol (or they just do so out of respect rather than strictly following protocol). Albert who is the monarch also has bowed to another monarch (but sometimes he didn't).


Actually in the description of the Youtube video HRHHermione posted the uploader also suggested that it's a break of protocol (in fact she always curtseys when she doesn't have to).

My understanding (not necessarily right) is that in modern European practice, monarchs/consort doesn't have to bow/curtsey to anyone, no matter HM, HRH or HSH, as long as you're the monarch/consort you bow/curtsey to no one. OTOH non-monarch royals also don't bow/curtsey to royal with equal/lower rank even if he/she is the monarch/consort.

As there aren't many videos of Monaco royals, I take Luxembourg as example.


For example in this old video of State Visit between Luxembourg and UK, no bow/curtsey between two monarch couples, OTOH also no curtsey from Princess Anne and Princess Margaret to the Grand Duke and Duchess.


And in newer video of State Visit between Luxembourg and the Netherlands, also no bow/curtsey from the Grand Duchy couple to the King and Queen.


Same in the Japan enthronement (at 2:00), no bow from both Grand Duke of Luxembourg and Prince of Monaco to the Emperor and Empress of Japan. (Interestingly after them King of Sweden did bow to the Emperor and Empress which I think it's simply a move of respect, I think sometimes bowing or curtseying could be just a personal preference to show respect and not always about protocol).
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  #3520  
Old 12-19-2022, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.


.
The Princess of Monaco

The Emperor of Japan
https://www.pinterest.ie/pin/785244885001861584/

Queen Elizabeth II
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/322640760774093969/
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