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12-04-2022, 12:56 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 12,352
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Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.
But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.
However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
"If your dreams don't scare you, they are not big enough" Sir Sidney Poitier
1927-2022
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12-09-2022, 01:18 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Athens, Angola
Posts: 5,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.
But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.
However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
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12-09-2022, 04:02 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23
Rainier III was a Princely Head of State and Grace was his Consort. Lady Diana Spencer was required to curtsey and she did.
But Charles greeted Princess Grace with an affectionate kiss on the cheek.
However, when HRH Diana Princess of Wales greeted HSH Princess Caroline in the early 90's, Princess Caroline did NOT curtsey to Diana. The two young women simply kissed one another on the cheek.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
I don't understand why Prince Charles did not bow to Princess Grace, while Diana did, this detail of the Protocol is unclear to me.
As from the then Princess of Wales and Princess Caroline, it seems logical that no-one curtseys.
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According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
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12-18-2022, 11:16 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kopenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 242
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Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
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12-18-2022, 03:07 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 1,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valeas
Does anybod know when the children of the BRF start courtseying (which age)?
TXS.
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The eldest two Wales children have been seen doing so already for some time. I can't remember Louis being in a public situation where he would need to do so yet.
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12-18-2022, 04:34 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2017
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Charlotte's first public curtsey at the age of 2 got quite a lot of press attention (and no she didn't have to do it but I can see how a 2 year old might not be iinti all the specifucs yet).
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...rlotte-curtsy/
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12-18-2022, 05:20 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 12,352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76
According to traditional royal protocol neither Diana nor Charles were required to curtsey or bow to Grace and Rainier. A royal highness isn't required to curtsey or bow to a serene highness. Not even if they are heads of state. Caroline (HSH) on the other hand should have curtsied to Diana (HRH).
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Diana curtsied to the Princess of Monaco white she was still Lady Diana Spencer...not as Princess of Wales.
I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess. Perhaps such protocol niceties didn't survive the post war upheaval, because it sure doesn't seem to be the norm now..even though I did see newly married Charlene curtsy to the Duchess of Cornwall in 2012.
But Princess Charlene of Monaco, curtsying to Princesses Kate, Stephanie(Lux) Marie-Chantal or Victoria? Can't picture it.
Princess Caroline has perfect manners, both her mother and her governesses were sticklers.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
"If your dreams don't scare you, they are not big enough" Sir Sidney Poitier
1927-2022
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12-18-2022, 08:10 PM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 250
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That's what I like with the Dutch royals, including the king & queen, protocol is very simple, no curtsey in the country only with foreign state visits protocol applies.
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12-18-2022, 08:12 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere Street, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23
I have never heard of a Serene Highness Princess having to curtsy to Royal Highness Princess.
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In most cases she should, because HSH is a lesser rank than HRH. Of course it also depends on the circumstance and the proximity of the HSH to the throne such as the case with HSH The Princess of Monaco, who is a consort to a reigning monarch and therefore equal with every other royal consort regardless.
Even in the BRF there are theoretically rules about which HRH members of the family curtsy to others, depending on who is in the room at the time, although I don't remember seeing photos where this protocol was actually observed.
Caroline should absolutely have curtsied to Diana as HRH The Princess of Wales and it's en etiquette faux pas not to have.
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12-18-2022, 09:47 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
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So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?
Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them?? 
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"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
"If your dreams don't scare you, they are not big enough" Sir Sidney Poitier
1927-2022
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12-18-2022, 11:57 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere Street, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23
So, technically Princess Charlene should curtsey to her sister in law HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover and to her niece HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover?
Even though, as the Consort, she outranks them?? |
No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.
Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilčge du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.
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12-19-2022, 12:19 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear
No. As a monarch's consort, she doesn't curtsy to anyone.
Edit: Except maybe for the Pope, which is an entirely different set of rules. I know that The Princess of Monaco is afforded Le privilčge du blanc and she may choose to curtsy (kiss the ring) of the Pope as per her religion but I don't know if Charlene did.
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She curtsied to Charles and Camilla when they were Prince of Wales/Duchess of Cornwall though. I assumed the same as you until I saw that.
https://youtu.be/ukSh5vJu-nc
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12-19-2022, 02:22 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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I think Charlene forgot as a new Consort that she didn't need to curtsey as not only were they no longer the royal family of her entire life, but contemporaries as she herself was now a royal Consort.
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MARG
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12-19-2022, 04:01 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Somewhere, Hong Kong
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IMO Monaco always is a bit messy when it comes to protocol (or they just do so out of respect rather than strictly following protocol). Albert who is the monarch also has bowed to another monarch (but sometimes he didn't).
Actually in the description of the Youtube video HRHHermione posted the uploader also suggested that it's a break of protocol (in fact she always curtseys when she doesn't have to).
My understanding (not necessarily right) is that in modern European practice, monarchs/consort doesn't have to bow/curtsey to anyone, no matter HM, HRH or HSH, as long as you're the monarch/consort you bow/curtsey to no one. OTOH non-monarch royals also don't bow/curtsey to royal with equal/lower rank even if he/she is the monarch/consort.
As there aren't many videos of Monaco royals, I take Luxembourg as example.
For example in this old video of State Visit between Luxembourg and UK, no bow/curtsey between two monarch couples, OTOH also no curtsey from Princess Anne and Princess Margaret to the Grand Duke and Duchess.
And in newer video of State Visit between Luxembourg and the Netherlands, also no bow/curtsey from the Grand Duchy couple to the King and Queen.
Same in the Japan enthronement (at 2:00), no bow from both Grand Duke of Luxembourg and Prince of Monaco to the Emperor and Empress of Japan. (Interestingly after them King of Sweden did bow to the Emperor and Empress which I think it's simply a move of respect, I think sometimes bowing or curtseying could be just a personal preference to show respect and not always about protocol).
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12-19-2022, 05:52 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Athens, Angola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri
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Queen Elizabeth was a particular case. Many royals curtseys to her by simple respect even if they didn't have to. I think it was the case for Princess Charlene.
Same for many wife's of French Présidents. They didn't have to .. but they did. Remember Carla Bruni and not only her.
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12-19-2022, 06:58 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere Street, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri
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Technically, everyone should curtsy/bow to the Emperor of Japan as he is an Imperial Majesty and not just a Majesty, but this is not observed in practice. As for QEII, I don't know why Charlene curtsied to her, but then again, I don't know why Charlene doesn't follow a lot of the royal protocol at the international events she attends either.
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01-28-2023, 05:59 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Athens, Angola
Posts: 5,548
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Does anyone have a clue about the rule of bowing or curtsey in front of the cuffin of a deceased Majesty / Ruler.
Watching the funeral of HLM King Konstantine of Greece, all his family bowed or Curtsied, but Queen Margrete no. CP Frederik and Joakim, yes.
If I'm not wrong I remember the funeral of late Prince Rainier, when the cuffin passed the Presidents and Kings bowed
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01-28-2023, 06:11 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 13,235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
Does anyone have a clue about the rule of bowing or curtsey in front of the cuffin of a deceased Majesty / Ruler.
Watching the funeral of HLM King Konstantine of Greece, all his family bowed or Curtsied, but Queen Margrete no. CP Frederik and Joakim, yes.
If I'm not wrong I remember the funeral of late Prince Rainier, when the cuffin passed the Presidents and Kings bowed
Sent from my SM-A426B using The Royals Community mobile app |
There is no any "rule" as a bow or a révérence are always optional and never an obligation.
Like saying "Your Majesty" is always optional as "Sir" or "Madame" is equally perfectly correct.
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01-28-2023, 07:34 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Athens, Angola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair
There is no any "rule" as a bow or a révérence are always optional and never an obligation.
Like saying "Your Majesty" is always optional as "Sir" or "Madame" is equally perfectly correct.
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Thanks a lot. But royals follow a very precise etiquette related to the bows and curtseys.
Just that this etiquette is unclear for me, as far as paying respect to a deceased, it's concerned.
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