Bowing and Curtseying

[Dman]

I don’t understand why folks make such a big deal about PM May curtsying to senior members of the royal family. Every Prime Minister most likely have done this.

[VictoriaB]

Originally Posted by Dman

I don’t understand why folks make such a big deal about PM May curtsying to senior members of the royal family. Every Prime Minister most likely have done this.

Maybe they have but times move on and what was appropriate in the days of Queen Victoria is not necessarily appropriate now. Personally I find it demeaning (obviously Mrs May does not) and I wish the elected representatives of the people would not do it or at least the elected head of the government. IMHO Members of the Royal family deserve no more and no less respect than anyone else.

[Osipi]

There is also a different perspective that we can put on it. In the US, its appropriate to remove one's hat, put one's hand over one's heart or salute when the flag is presented or the national anthem sung. (I used to think it was so cool that I wasn't like the masses and could use the Girl Scout hand signal over my heart. *No* one does a better flag ceremony than the Girl Scouts!)

I see it basically being the same with showing respect to the royal family with a bob or a curtsy. Its not the *people* so much that they're respecting but rather their Crown and their Monarchy which is the foundation of all things British.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

[....]


I don't think that the curtsey should be abolished per se, but I do think that it's a good idea it became just as customary for women to bow as it is to curtsey.

It already is for ages and ages. A révérence or a bow is always an option and never a requirement. And when a lady wants to bow, it is perfectly fine. It already happens that ladies make a nod with the head. It is all okay with the royals.

[Dalriada]

“Theresa May’s curtsey? We don’t need this deference to royals..” this article has interesting spin that the deferential act is good to keep power hungry politicians in their place...
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...share_btn_link

[Osipi]

Another thing to keep in mind and this pertains to Theresa May and all of the other politicians that govern the UK and the Commonwealth nations.

The governmental system of the UK and the Commonwealth nations are referred to as "Her Majesty's Government". Although the monarch plays no role in the parliamentary procedures and is apolitical, it is the monarch's role to ask the Prime Minister to form a government and to sign all legislature.

The monarch is the personification of the Crown. Its bigger than any one person or political party and represents the whole. That deserves to be respected in whichever way a person sees fit.

At least that's how I see it.

[W.Y.CII]

Bow and curtsey isn't an obligation. You can do it to whoever you think they deserve and not do it to whoever you think they do not deserve, it's fine for the government to do so and it's also ok for them to not do so. (Let's say, IF one day UK has an anti monarchy PM *knocking on wood*, I don't expect he/she bows/curtsey to the monarch no matter in what ocassion) JMO

Also I don't think a curtsey or a curtsey with a nod is subservient and I just want to bring in the gif of Mette Marit's curtsey to QEII. Still the most elegant curtsey to me.

Being-a-royal: Photo

Also the curtsey from Lux Stephanie: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/82753711878504463/

I think it's more “natural” to bow your head if you are doing a deep curtsey (like Mette Marit and Stephanie above). Sometimes I find it's quite odd if the ladies are looking at someone directly while doing a deep curtsey (e.g. the danish ladies, yet I do admire how deep their curtsies are).

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

Bow and curtsey isn't an obligation. You can do it to whoever you think they deserve and not do it to whoever you think they do not deserve, it's fine for the government to do so and it's also ok for them to not do so. (Let's say, IF one day UK has an anti monarchy PM *knocking on wood*, I don't expect he/she bows/curtsey to the monarch no matter in what ocassion) JMO

Also I don't think a curtsey or a curtsey with a nod is subservient and I just want to bring in the gif of Mette Marit's curtsey to QEII. Still the most elegant curtsey to me.

Being-a-royal: Photo

Also the curtsey from Lux Stephanie: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/82753711878504463/

I think it's more “natural” to bow your head if you are doing a deep curtsey (like Mette Marit and Stephanie above). Sometimes I find it's quite odd if the ladies are looking at someone directly while doing a deep curtsey (e.g. the danish ladies, yet I do admire how deep their curtsies are).

Mette-Marit wore a long gown. It is hard to make a poor curtsey wearing a floor length gown. It is hard to make a good curtsey wearing a skirt. Would we have seen Mette-Marit in a skirt, the effect was 50% less.

[W.Y.CII]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Mette-Marit wore a long gown. It is hard to make a poor curtsey wearing a floor length gown. It is hard to make a good curtsey wearing a skirt. Would we have seen Mette-Marit in a skirt, the effect was 50% less.

Of course, the long gown is one of the factors makes it elegant (at least I can't think of a bad curtsey with long gown, I even kinda believe that Theresa May's curtsey in last page will not look that bad if she is wearing a gown ). And my point is a curtsey with a nod is more “natural” and not that subservient in my eyes (that's why I also post Stephanie's).

[Charlotte_Aster]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

Of course, the long gown is one of the factors makes it elegant (at least I can't think of a bad curtsey with long gown, I even kinda believe that Theresa May's curtsey in last page will not look that bad if she is wearing a gown ). And my point is a curtsey with a nod is more “natural” and not that subservient in my eyes (that's why I also post Stephanie's).

Oh there can be horrible curtseys with a long gown. Just watch arrivals for the birthyday party of CP Frederick. Many cringeworthy moments there.

[sarahedwards2]

When Texas debs are presented, they go down so low that they are literally flush with the floor; it’s called the Texas Dip.

[W.Y.CII]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

Oh there can be horrible curtseys with a long gown. Just watch arrivals for the birthyday party of CP Frederick. Many cringeworthy moments there.

Ooops I forget that . But well, I don't want to be harsh on these who are not used to curtseying as I don't think I can do a good one even if I get a long gown , so my comment is only talking about the royals.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

When Texas debs are presented, they go down so low that they are literally flush with the floor; it’s called the Texas Dip.

What parts of tehir anatomy are flush with the floor?

[AdmirerUS]

It just occurred to me that we have never on this thread had a general organized discussion of where on the head nod to deep bow/curtsey question the various royal houses fall.

By that I mean that we know that BRF says "do as you like" but do other monarchies have a specific stated guideline or generally followed standard?

[sarahedwards2]

Originally Posted by Denville

What parts of tehir anatomy are flush with the floor?

“A Texas Dip is quite literally a to-the-floor curtsey in that the debutante gets so far down on her high heels that her dress flares out around her like a marshmallow. As the coup de grace, she lays her left ear on her lap for a moment...to avoid getting a lipstick mark on her virginal white dress.” -Vendela Vida; “Girls on the Verge” (excellent read, may I add!) You can look it up on YouTube so you can see exactly how it’s done. I’m not from Texas, but have tried it; it’s pretty hard.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

It just occurred to me that we have never on this thread had a general organized discussion of where on the head nod to deep bow/curtsey question the various royal houses fall.

By that I mean that we know that BRF says "do as you like" but do other monarchies have a specific stated guideline or generally followed standard?

Regarding Sweden there are no requirements. If you want to either bow, nod, curtsy it's up to you. The King is said to have abolished the custom of court curtseys when he ascended the throne and it's known that the wife of his grandfather, Queen Louise was slightly uncomfortable with them. She was the one who abolished the presentation of young ladies at court in the early fifties. Deep curtseys are in general only seen when the Bernadottes meet foreign royals. Many Swedes do a quick bob of the knees and a slightly lower but equally quick bob for the King and Queen seems to be standard among the females members of staff.
A deep curtsy from a female prime minister (we've yet to have one) would be frowned upon and would be the cause of much ridicule.

[Pranter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYCvoHD-fsc

The Texas Dip ...the last couple minutes are at the actual presentation


Everything is done bigger in Texas.


LaRae

[W.Y.CII]

My legs feel hurt when I watch this video, I know it's pretty deep but I don't expect they have to twist their legs like that....

[alvinking]

HSH Princess Charlene of Monaco curtsying to HRH the Prince of Wales and to HRH the Duchess of Cornwall

https://youtu.be/ukSh5vJu-nc

[sarahedwards2]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

[emoji33] My legs feel hurt when I watch this video, I know it's pretty deep but I don't expect they have to twist their legs like that....

I’m not American, and even if I were, my father would not be caught dead presenting his only daughter to society (he told me that himself), not even at a local ball. My mom says those are the 1 percent of wealthiest people. Same with private school; she wouldn’t sent me or my brothers to one even if we could afford the 25 grand apiece per school year (so $75,000 in total). She says they’re just a bunch of wealthy snobs. Our parents both went to public school, so why shouldn’t we?