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  #3061  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal_enthusiast View Post
[...]Would she obliged to curtsy to him?

A révérence or a bow is always optional and never an obligation.
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  #3062  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:37 AM
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Bowing and Curtseying

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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
This is a royal board and not religious !


Bishops have been traditionally regarded as “princes of the Church”, the Holy Father as Bishop of Rome is also an absolute monarch.
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  #3063  
Old 08-01-2018, 06:03 AM
kbk kbk is offline
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It is the cardinals who are considered by some "princes" of the Church. But they are not monarchs. The only two bishops who are monarchs currently (and not even cardinals) are the Pope, who may be considered as the absolute monarch of Vatican City and the Bishop of Urgell, who is ex officio Co-Prince of Andorra.

Some bishops or even abbots and provosts (!) were immediate princes of the Holy Roman Empire, combining their ecclesiastical role with that of a ruler (holder) over (of) an Imperial fief. But they are not anymore. The Archbishops of Kraków, Poland, were also Dukes of Siewierz and were, at least nominally, independent in that capacity (meaning that they had no sovereign over them in right of Siewierz). The Duchy was formally not a part of the HRE nor the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Some other high-ranking prelates also used princely titles, which corresponded to their offices or possessions, such as the Archbishops of Warmia (Ermland), who were designated as Princes-Bishops by the Emperor but were later subordinate to the Crown of Poland and thus did not held monarchical status or power. Some Church possessions were designated as principalities, with the corresponding office holders using princely titles but it does not mean they were monarchs over the lands.
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  #3064  
Old 08-05-2018, 08:55 PM
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Bowing and Curtseying

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Originally Posted by kbk View Post
Bowing and curtseying is a gesture of greeting, a very traditional sign of respect by an individual for an individual. Today, mostly a matter of tradition. It is not a must as nobody is expected to do that anymore. It's up to you.
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
A révérence or a bow is always optional and never an obligation.

I sometimes curtsy to my piano/vocal teacher during recital prep, when I'm doing a complete run through during my lesson and she pretends she's the whole audience and applauds me when I'm done ("A little curtsy?" she cutely asked me in her girlish voice one time after I did one), although last year at the year-end recital I was feeling a little bit shy about curtsying to the entire audience, so on my way back to my seat I stopped in front of hers in the front row and just gave her a little dip (I was wearing a floor-length lightweight white summer dress); she smiled prettily back at me.
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  #3065  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:07 AM
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PM Theresa May gives a curtsy to The Duke of Cambridge upon his arrival at today’s ceremony in France

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkFFfBUXcAENqr3.jpg
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  #3066  
Old 08-08-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
PM Theresa May gives a curtsy to The Duke of Cambridge upon his arrival at today’s ceremony in France
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkFFfBUXcAENqr3.jpg
Curtsies looked 'elegant' when there was all that draping cloth so the woman looked like a descending and rising cloud. But seeing those legs in a pretzel in today's clothing looks grotesque. Sorry. Does.
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  #3067  
Old 08-08-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Curtsies looked 'elegant' when there was all that draping cloth so the woman looked like a descending and rising cloud. But seeing those legs in a pretzel in today's clothing looks grotesque. Sorry. Does.


Yes, curtsies do look better in a floor-length dress, but a knee-length one will do as long as it’s A-line.
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  #3068  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:14 PM
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Those curtsies in tight skirts...ugh.


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  #3069  
Old 08-08-2018, 04:07 PM
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A better view of the prime minister’s curtsy. She does go low.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkFS8JqW4AAbKck.jpg
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  #3070  
Old 08-08-2018, 04:08 PM
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It needs to be changed: women need to be able to discharge their 'obligation' with a nod of the head, just like men. The curtsy is just too subservient imo. Just the way it looks: grown women, intelligent and educated, powerful in their own right, doing that pretzel......no. JMO. The men get away with hardly being noticed doing the nod of their head.
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  #3071  
Old 08-09-2018, 03:07 PM
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Like many things, a curtsy looks bad if it is done poorly.

The Prime Minister's curtsy is a bit awkward (her legs too far apart) and perhaps unneedingly low.

Here is a photo of The Duchess of Cambridge curtsying to The King of The Belgians.

Even in day attire it looks quick, slight and elegant. She is looking him right in the eye - Not subservient at all IMHO.

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  #3072  
Old 08-09-2018, 08:10 PM
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I have seldom seen a women in a short dress pull off a curtsey. Denmark's Crown Princess Mary has done a couple of curtseys that did not look awkward and noodle-y but it was because she wore a flared skirt that was long enough to cover her knees and top part of her calves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
It needs to be changed: women need to be able to discharge their 'obligation' with a nod of the head, just like men. The curtsy is just too subservient imo. Just the way it looks: grown women, intelligent and educated, powerful in their own right, doing that pretzel......no. JMO. The men get away with hardly being noticed doing the nod of their head.
I don't think that the curtsey should be abolished per se, but I do think that it's a good idea it became just as customary for women to bow as it is to curtsey.
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  #3073  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:11 PM
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Bowing and Curtseying

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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I have seldom seen a women in a short dress pull off a curtsey. Denmark's Crown Princess Mary has done a couple of curtseys that did not look awkward and noodlie-ybut it was because she wore a flared skirt that was long enough to cover her knees and top part of her calves.




I don't think that the curtsey should be abolished per se, but I do think that it's a good idea it became just as customary for women to bow as it is to curtsey.


I have a white A-line dress with a green, blue and purple floral pattern that goes to below my kneecaps and has a flared skirt; I’ve successfully curtsied in it.
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  #3074  
Old 08-10-2018, 09:43 PM
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Prince Philip bowed while shaking hands with King Felipe VI of Spain during the ceremonial welcome at Horse Guards Parade on July 12, 2017.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/813332988
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  #3075  
Old 08-10-2018, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post
I have a white A-line dress with a green, blue and purple floral pattern that goes to below my kneecaps and has a flared skirt; I’ve successfully curtsied in it.
To clarify, I do not mean the physical act of the curtsey, I am referring to the aesthetics. I doubt if the same woman curtsies differently in a long dress versus a short dress but the long dress covers more so you don't see awkward / noodle-y leg positioning.
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  #3076  
Old 08-10-2018, 10:23 PM
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I always thought that the curtsey was established by men in order to give themselves a good look down a neckline or under a skirt. Surely women are entitled to show their respect with a nod of the head.
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  #3077  
Old 08-10-2018, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce View Post
Like many things, a curtsy looks bad if it is done poorly.

The Prime Minister's curtsy is a bit awkward (her legs too far apart) and perhaps unneedingly low.

Here is a photo of The Duchess of Cambridge curtsying to The King of The Belgians.

Even in day attire it looks quick, slight and elegant. She is looking him right in the eye - Not subservient at all IMHO.
But it is 'subservient' by definition, however 'elegantly' executed. It's a couple of steps up from laying prostrate on the ground before the sovereign or conqueror, but the 'genuflection' or kneeling before another has very clear implications of who is superior/inferior. It's outmoded. As well as looking strange.

I say it's time to do away with it. We all seem to automatically nod our heads to each other upon greeting, when taking hands to shake hands. It seems to be a natural gesture of acknowledgement of the other across cultures, whereas prostration, kneeling, curtsey, has a very definite archaic significance best left imo.
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  #3078  
Old 08-10-2018, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
But it is 'subservient' by definition, however 'elegantly' executed. It's a couple of steps up from laying prostrate on the ground before the sovereign or conqueror, but the 'genuflection' or kneeling before another has very clear implications of who is superior/inferior. It's outmoded. As well as looking strange.

I say it's time to do away with it. We all seem to automatically nod our heads to each other upon greeting, when taking hands to shake hands. It seems to be a natural gesture of acknowledgement of the other across cultures, whereas prostration, kneeling, curtsey, has a very definite archaic significance best left imo.
I agree it is subservient and I don’t like the idea of the elected head of the government bowing or curtsying to anyone really but certainly not to the second in line to the throne. If the Prime Minister feels the urge to drop into a curtesy I wish she would restrict it to the Monarch.

I’d be happy for the nod of the head that you suggest provided the Royal did it back to the person they were meeting.
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  #3079  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:29 AM
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A curtsy is in no way subservient by definition IMO. It is a gesture of respect. If people don't like it, simply don't do it! No member of the public is required to curtsy or bow to any royal.
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  #3080  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
I agree it is subservient and I don’t like the idea of the elected head of the government bowing or curtsying to anyone really but certainly not to the second in line to the throne. If the Prime Minister feels the urge to drop into a curtesy I wish she would restrict it to the Monarch.

I’d be happy for the nod of the head that you suggest provided the Royal did it back to the person they were meeting.
I believe that is what Prime Minister May was doing in France when she curtsied to William. William was there representing the Queen and was treated as such.

As has been said many times, no bow or curtsy is ever mandatory. People do what they're comfortable doing. All I know is that should I attempt any kind of a curtsy, I would end up kissing the floor right quick.
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