Bowing and Curtseying

[JR76]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Christopher O'Neill is the husband of Princess Madeleine of Sweden. Upon his marriage to Madeleine, he did not want a royal title or a nobility title. Since he is not Prince Christopher, do the servants and soldiers still bow to him?

I don't know. There's no official protocol about how he should be treated. He might not be a member of the Royal House but he's a member of the Royal family. A clue should be how other members of the family like Countess Marianne Bernadotte and Thord Magnusson are greeted by the staff.

Originally Posted by Lady Nimue

Likely not simply because he is an American and would probably tell everybody to dispense with such. Same with Madeleine, I would guess. I would guess for most royalty these days. Can't imagine anyone would be able to retain servants if such an archaic habit was insisted upon.

We've seen several times both in pictures and on TV how employees at the Royal Palace greet members of the Royal family with curtseys and bowing.

[Rudolph]

A deep curtsy from PM Theresa May to The Duke of Cambridge at today’s engagement

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPIIDQU0AEX_oN.jpg

[Pranter]

I much prefer these types of curtesy's where the person doesn't appear to be holding onto the royal.


LaRae

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Rudolph

A deep curtsy from PM Theresa May to The Duke of Cambridge at today’s engagement

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPIIDQU0AEX_oN.jpg

Still it does look weird that the prime minister (who holds an important office) is so submissive to the third in line to the throne (who only has a couple of honorary positions).

[Terri Terri]

The Duke of Cambridge is second in line, not third.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Terri Terri

The Duke of Cambridge is second in line, not third.

Of course, I was thinking about Queen - Prince of Wales - Duke of Cambridge, so included the reigning monarch in my numbering

Luckily, it doesn't really change the point I was trying to make. He is the third most important royal with no real official position as of yet.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Pranter

I much prefer these types of curtesy's where the person doesn't appear to be holding onto the royal.


LaRae

Unless you are The Princess Royal, you back is straight and King Felipe is kissing your hand at the same time. Even the DM said "Now THAT'S a Curtsey.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9972184281.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9972184281.jpg

Originally Posted by Somebody

Still it does look weird that the prime minister (who holds an important office) is so submissive to the third in line to the throne (who only has a couple of honorary positions).

For a woman to curtsey is in no way a submissive act. It is an act of respect or reverence defined as "an external manifestation of personal courtesy.

So yes, Theresa May is the Prime Minister, but she is paying her respects to a Prince of Great Britain and that is in no way an "honorary" position. Neither he nor she sees her as a submissive or inferior person.

[Pranter]

Anne is doing a almost perfect curtesy...and she's not holding onto him for support!


LaRae

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by MARG

Unless you are The Princess Royal, you back is straight and King Felipe is kissing your hand at the same time. Even the DM said "Now THAT'S a Curtsey.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9972184281.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9972184281.jpg

For a woman to curtsey is in no way a submissive act. It is an act of respect or reverence defined as "an external manifestation of personal courtesy.

So yes, Theresa May is the Prime Minister, but she is paying her respects to a Prince of Great Britain and that is in no way an "honorary" position. Neither he nor she sees her as a submissive or inferior person.

So, does William also show that same respect for the Prime Minister of his country? Or does that personal courtesy not extend to her?

And would the prime minister also curtsey to princess Michael of Kent?

The honorary positions I was thinking about were among others him being an aide de camp to her majesty; currently he is a peer but he does not hold an official office.

[Of course this is tradition and I'm from a country where that tradition is long gone - so that might make me cringe a little when elected officials with real responsibilities pay their respect in such a submissive way (just look at the picture and it is hard not to look at it as such - a simple nod as the men are expected to do would not provoke the same thought) to someone who is not yet the head of state - who doesn't at least return that same external expression of respect]

[DMR412]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Letizia, the fiancee of Crown Prince Felipe of Spain curtseyed to Infanta Pilar.

http://www.gettyimages.com/license/50884936

Actually that’s Infanta Margarita, her husband Don Carlos Zurita is next to her, next to him is their daughter, Maria.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

The honorary positions I was thinking about were among others him being an aide de camp to her majesty; currently he is a peer but he does not hold an official office.

Actually William is a member of the Queen's Privy Council, as is Mrs May BTW.


I guess that a basic tenet of the British system of government is that politicians, including the PM, are devoid of majesty. They are supposed to be "one of us" so to speak. Majesty rests with the sovereign and, I suppose, by extension, with the sovereign's successors like William or Charles. Mrs May's attitude seems to be consistent in this sense with British practice in my opinion.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Actually William is a member of the Queen's Privy Council, as is Mrs May BTW.


I guess that a basic tenet of the British system of government is that politicians, including the PM, are devoid of majesty. They are supposed to be "one of us" so to speak. Majesty rests with the sovereign and, I suppose, by extension, with the sovereign's successors like William or Charles. Mrs May's attitude seems to be consistent in this sense with British practice in my opinion.

That's why I used plural - he has several of those positions

So, would the prime minister also curtsey to the duke of York or the duke of Sussex as non-direct heirs?

[Rudolph]

I doubt she would curtsy to anyone below Willian and Catherine. Here’s the PM giving a curtsy to The Duchess of Cambridge.

http://2.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...c89&m=cdmpefih

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

That's why I used plural - he has several of those positions

So, would the prime minister also curtsey to the duke of York or the duke of Sussex as non-direct heirs?

Honestly I don't know if Mrs May would curtsy to the Duke of Sussex or the Duke of York. My point was, however, that, in Britain, people are not expected to be deferential to the prime minister or any other elected politician. The prime minister , despite beng the de facto head of government, is supposed to be an ordinary citizen like everybody else. People are expected to be deferential to the Queen though , not only as a matter of courtesy or tradition, but because she is the embodiment of state sovereignty.

[Curbside]

It's weird to this American, as Theresa May is actually in charge, while William was simply born. I guess it's just a nod to tradition.

[Osipi]

When I think about it, actually Theresa May is the Prime Minister of Her Majesty's government. Although the Queen has no political power really, she does as the Prime Minister to form a government. With William being a senior royal, Mrs. May is showing respect for the monarchy when she does a curtsey to him.

At least that's how I look at it.

[Dman]

Here is a video of PM May giving a curtsy to The Duke of Cambridge-
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/v...-37035545.html

[Osipi]

I love that photo. The people in that photo weren't just paying their respects to the Queen but they also wore great big smiles as they did it. To show the proper respect and enjoy doing it is something you don't see to often these days.

Nothing says "gentlemanly" like a man tipping his top hat with a smile like Andrew did.

[TLLK]

The Yorks look genuinely happy to see HM today.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by Dman

Here is a video of PM May giving a curtsy to The Duke of Cambridge-
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/v...-37035545.html

Originally Posted by Rudolph

A deep curtsy from PM Theresa May to The Duke of Cambridge at today’s engagement https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPIIDQU0AEX_oN.jpg

Ms May's curtsy was awkwardly painful.