Bowing and Curtseying

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

No, they are not obligated to bow/curtsy so it's not rude at all. Like what maria-olivia said, Belgium doesn't have a strong tradition of bow/curtsy, the government officials also don't bow/curtsy to their royals (I remember their PM doesn't bow to Phillipe and Mathilde, just handshakes). Every country has different customs .

I beg to differ, It is Ok for an American official not to bow to QMIi as the Danish courtiers and princes probably will not bow to the President of the United States. However, on a state visit where all Danes are bowing to the Belgian monarch, it is indeed rude for the Belgians not to bow to the Danish Queen. It is a matter of reciprocity, which is the Golden rule of foreign relations.

[maria-olivia]

One former Prime Minister sat before the King in his Royal Office...
Times are changing Mbruno and the respect for Royals also.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

One former Prime Minister sat before the King in his Royal Office...
Times are changing Mbruno and the respect for Royals also.

Well, Belgium is a " popular monarchy " after all, só it's not surprising that they should do things differently there !

I wonder though if it has been always like that or if that relaxation of protocol began wiith King Baudouin' and his brother,

I suspect Queen Mathikde wouldn't mind a little bit more protocol; she seems to enjoy being called 'Majesty' and maybe being curtsied to.

[W.Y.CII]

Personally, I would say only royals are expected to bow/curtsy. From ordinary people who have no title at all, it's up to their choices, no matter in what situation.

[maria-olivia]

The Belgian Protocol relaxation started with King Albert II who was a modern and unexpected King.

[wyevale]

reciprocity, which is the Golden rule of foreign relations.

Then I DREAD to imagine how Americans will be treated abroad in the next few years [but this is 'hors sujet']..

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is just gallantry. The bowing, the révérence. As long as it is voluntarily and never an obligation. It is like the "oldfashioned" handkiss. A very private choice to do so. Even by people who are really not "oldfashioned".

Doña Letizia receives a handkiss from the Duke of Savoy

Dutch Prime Minister Rutte gives a handkiss 3

The Prince of Wales gives a handkiss

The Letizia one could have an amusing caption. Fleipe looks like he is monitoring the elderly gallant.

Do not understand the second picture. Looks like the lady is turning away while the gentleman is the midst of the kiss.

And Charles and Mary look like they are enjoying their bit of the old-fashioned gallantry.

[Duc_et_Pair]

That lady was the Speaker of the Second Chamber passing by while the Prime Minister was telephoning behind the coulisses. He saw the Speaker coming and -while continuing the telephone call- popped out of the coulisses and greeted her with a handkiss.

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

I think Mrs. Chirac, or other heads of state and their spouses, shouldn't bow/curtsy to other monarchs......but after all it's all about individual choice.

W.Y.CII, why do you think that heads of state should not bow/curtsy to other monarchs?

[VictoriaB]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

W.Y.CII, why do you think that heads of state should not bow/curtsy to other monarchs?

Because they are all equal - all heads of state. Having one bow to another suggests one is more important than another and they are not.

[W.Y.CII]

Yes, that's exactly what I think, thanks VictoriaB.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

That lady was the Speaker of the Second Chamber passing by while the Prime Minister was telephoning behind the coulisses. He saw the Speaker coming and -while continuing the telephone call- popped out of the coulisses and greeted her with a handkiss.

Amusing! Never pass up an opportunity, I guess.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

I think Mrs. Chirac, or other heads of state and their spouses, shouldn't bow/curtsy to other monarchs......but after all it's all about individual choice.

The former Première Dame, Madame Bernadette Chirac was just gallant. And.... her parents were a Chodron de Courcel (barons) and a Brondeau d'Urtières (comtes), belonging to the French aristocracy.

That is not so unusual. Another still living Première Dame belongs to the nobility as well: Madame Anne-Aymone Giscard d'Estaing. Her parents were a Sauvage de Brantès (marquises) and De Faucigny-Lucinge (princes).

Let us say: greeting the oldfashioned way is part of their milieu.

[maria-olivia]

Indeed , but when the Noble Ladies of this Generation will pass away , it will be the end of courtsey.

The new Monarchs are modern people, married communors and I think for exemple that King Frederick and Queen Mary, Queen Victoria and Prince Daniel , King Charles and Queen Camilla will do it on a more simple and economic way.

[W.Y.CII]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The former Première Dame, Madame Bernadette Chirac was just gallant. And.... her parents were a Chodron de Courcel (barons) and a Brondeau d'Urtières (comtes), belonging to the French aristocracy.

That is not so unusual. Another still living Première Dame belongs to the nobility as well: Madame Anne-Aymone Giscard d'Estaing. Her parents were a Sauvage de Brantès (marquises) and De Faucigny-Lucinge (princes).

Let us say: greeting the oldfashioned way is part of their milieu.

I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.

Wasn't Giscard d'Estaing himself also from the French nobility ?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by W.Y.CII

I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.

Even the former president Nicolas Sarkozy is an aristocrat. His father was Pál István Ernő Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa. The Sárközys were elevated to the untitled nobility of Hungary on 10 September 1628. The family possessed an estate in the village of Alattyán, near Szolnok. Pál Sárközy’s father and grandfather held elective offices in the town of Szolnok. When the Red Army entered Hungary in 1944, the Sárközy family fled to Germany and later they settled in Paris. Their Hungarian estate was completely demolished. Nicolas Sarkozy was born in the French capital on the 28th of January 1955.

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

That lady was the Speaker of the Second Chamber passing by while the Prime Minister was telephoning behind the coulisses. He saw the Speaker coming and -while continuing the telephone call- popped out of the coulisses and greeted her with a handkiss.

Doesn't grabbing a lady's hand and twisting her around destroy the gallantry of it all?

[maria-olivia]

The Old nobililties and new nobllities of the Presidents of France are out of topic.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

Doesn't grabbing a lady's hand and twisting her around destroy the gallantry of it all?

Yes. Isn't it an odd picture? Strange impression conveyed: talking on the phone while doing so, no less. Was it that important to make a political moment? Looks a bit compulsive. Then, too, they both could have been laughing. Might have been an in-joke. We'll never know.