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  #2821  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:15 AM
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Although it was not called genuflecting, in the Middle Ages men did often make a deeper obeisance to royalty, especially the king and queen. It was similar to a cursty but no holding out the skirts. It was literally going down on one knee and looking at the floor. But no crossing yourself like when genuflecting. Obviously we don't know all the ins and outs of when this was done and when one simply bowed. But to take one example, I imagine that if someone had an audience with the king and bent the knee on first meeting him, he would not then do it again when the king left but would simply bow.

We see traces of 'bending the knee' still to this day. When a man is knighted he does it, and when he proposes to his girlfriend that is what he is supposed to do. (You read 'he went down on his knees, but it is supposed to be one knee only, he's pleading not begging lol!)
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  #2822  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel View Post
Although it was not called genuflecting, in the Middle Ages men did often make a deeper obeisance to royalty, especially the king and queen. It was similar to a cursty but no holding out the skirts. It was literally going down on one knee and looking at the floor. But no crossing yourself like when genuflecting. Obviously we don't know all the ins and outs of when this was done and when one simply bowed. But to take one example, I imagine that if someone had an audience with the king and bent the knee on first meeting him, he would not then do it again when the king left but would simply bow.

We see traces of 'bending the knee' still to this day. When a man is knighted he does it, and when he proposes to his girlfriend that is what he is supposed to do. (You read 'he went down on his knees, but it is supposed to be one knee only, he's pleading not begging lol!)
There are records from the early 1800s showing that in my parts of Southern Sweden the peasants went down on their knee when greeting a member of the nobility.
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  #2823  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisele View Post
Wow I didn't know this thread was here so I'm just catching up.

I was taught to curtsey and genuflect by my grandmother - I don't know why but she felt it was something I should know. I didn't know why I had to curtsey with my right knee (which is comfortable since I'm right handed) and genuflect with my left (which is uncomfortable for me). So I looked it up and this is what I found.

"As for genuflecting, generally people genuflected to royalty with the left knee and to God with the right leg.

People do not genuflect to royalty. Males bow, and females curtsey which is very different"
Are you Catholic, Lisele? Here's what fisheaters.com has to say about genuflection:

Genuflection on Left Knee: How: Kneel on your left knee for a moment, bringing the left knee all the way to the floor and keeping the back straight. Hold for a moment, then stand. When: When greeting or leaving the Pope or other hierarchs with the rank of Bishop or above and who have jurisdiction over you (only when the Pope is not present) -- e.g., to the Bishop or Archbishop of your diocese, not of a neighboring diocese. During the left-knee genuflection, a kiss is given to the hierarch's ring. Then stand.

Genuflection on Right Knee: How:
Looking at what you are genuflecting toward, kneel on your right knee for a moment in the manner of a man proposing to a woman, bringing the right knee all the way to the floor, close to the heel of the left foot, keeping the back and neck erect. Hold for a moment, then stand. When:
  • Genuflect toward the Tabernacle where the Blessed Sacrament is reserved, and each time you pass in front of it (except when you're in procession, such as standing in line for Communion, or returning to your seat afterward). While this should, on one level, be a matter of habit, it shouldn't be done thoughtlessly. Remind yourself when genuflecting toward the Tabernacle that you are kneeling before God. Praying mentally, "My Lord and My God" is a good habit to get into while genuflecting on the right knee. If the Tabernacle is not on the Altar, genuflect toward the Altar and the Altar Crucifix.
  • Before a relic of the True Cross when it is exposed for public adoration.
  • On Good Friday to Holy Saturday, after the ceremony of the Adoration of the Cross, genuflect when passing in front of the exposed Crucifix on the Altar.
  • Before entering or after exiting your pew at church.

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  #2824  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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I always genuflect on the right knee at Mass/Adoration etc but I don't think I could genuflect on the left without collapsing. My balance isn't that good!
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  #2825  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:28 PM
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LOl I had to stop and actually think about what I do when I genuflect. I realize that my knee that dips is the one opposite to the pew. In other words "Mary side" It's my left and "Joseph side" it's my right. I must do that so I can quickly move into the pew. (Must be a leftover from Catholic school when we were being quickly shepherded into Mass by our teachers.)
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  #2826  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
LOl I had to stop and actually think about what I do when I genuflect. I realize that my knee that dips is the one opposite to the pew. In other words "Mary side" It's my left and "Joseph side" it's my right. I must do that so I can quickly move into the pew. (Must be a leftover from Catholic school when we were being quickly shepherded into Mass by our teachers.)
I stood up from my desk and practised to see what I do! And just as in church I have to grab something so I don't wobble or topple over.
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  #2827  
Old 12-25-2017, 08:07 AM
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42477127

Miss Meghan curtsy The Queen
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  #2828  
Old 12-25-2017, 09:16 AM
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What's a Hollywood smile (and Meghan isn't from Hollywood) as distinct from an ordinary wide happy grin, which I see?
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  #2829  
Old 12-25-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpede View Post
That will certainly be controversial for some Americans, but they should get used to it.
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  #2830  
Old 12-25-2017, 09:46 AM
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I'm glad Meghan curtseyed before the queen. I thought we wouldn't see her first curtsy until her wedding day. If she didn't here the press would have dragged her for days. And with all the fuss about who curtseys to whom why didn't the blood princesses (Beatrice and Eugenie) do so? Also, does Meghan receive a bow or curtsy now? At the Nottingham event I saw a woman cursty to Meghan as she shook her hand.
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  #2831  
Old 12-25-2017, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
That will certainly be controversial for some Americans, but they should get used to it.
The few Americans I know who pay attention or care about the BRF aren't bothered by this.

Just the custom there...like in the Asian countries folks bow.

LaRae
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  #2832  
Old 12-25-2017, 10:46 AM
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Please note that a few off-topic posts have been deleted. We have a separate thread available to discuss dentistry: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...try-11099.html
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  #2833  
Old 12-25-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
That will certainly be controversial for some Americans, but they should get used to it.
This American loved it and got all giggly about it... she looked so happy.
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  #2834  
Old 12-25-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
This American loved it and got all giggly about it... she looked so happy.
The reason why I said it was controversial is that there is a widespread misconception in the US, which has been actually repeated many times before on TRF, that Americans do not (or should not) bow (or curtsy) to anybody. Ms Markle's curtsy to the Queen would symbolically signify that she is giving up her "American identity" and embracing her new status as a British subject.

Just to make it clear, I don't think that is the case, but I'm pretty sure many Americans would see it that way.
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  #2835  
Old 12-25-2017, 12:10 PM
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She's about to join a clan with a formidable matriarch. If it's appropriate for her to show respect with a little dip, then that's what she should do.

If it were me, I don't think I would curtsy. I'm not a British subject nor do I plan to become one, so I do not see why it would be required of me.
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  #2836  
Old 12-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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You aren't required to curtsey.


LaRae
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  #2837  
Old 12-25-2017, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I'm glad Meghan curtseyed before the queen. I thought we wouldn't see her first curtsy until her wedding day. If she didn't here the press would have dragged her for days. And with all the fuss about who curtseys to whom why didn't the blood princesses (Beatrice and Eugenie) do so? Also, does Meghan receive a bow or curtsy now? At the Nottingham event I saw a woman cursty to Meghan as she shook her hand.
It are the media playing it up: "Kate has to curtsy to blood princesses!"

On the very own website of the Monarchy can be read that there is no obligation at all. When one feels she has to lower herselves: be the Queen's guest. When another simply says "Good morning Ma'am", an equally friendly Queen will respond.
https://www.royal.uk/greeting-member-royal-family

In The Daily Telegraph Mr Richard ("Dickie") Arbiter, for years a press officer for the Queen, said that it is all hyped up by media. Inside the royal family it is all very relaxed and the royals usually just greet the Queen like we all do.
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  #2838  
Old 12-25-2017, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It are the media playing it up: "Kate has to curtsy to blood princesses!"

On the very own website of the Monarchy can be read that there is no obligation at all. When one feels she has to lower herselves: be the Queen's guest. When another simply says "Good morning Ma'am", an equally friendly Queen will respond.
https://www.royal.uk/greeting-member-royal-family

In The Daily Telegraph Mr Richard ("Dickie") Arbiter, for years a press officer for the Queen, said that it is all hyped up by media. Inside the royal family it is all very relaxed and the royals usually just greet the Queen like we all do.
I don't know what they do in private, but, at least in public events, all family members (other than the DoE) always curtsy or bow to the Queen. A similar protocol seems to be observed by the Danish and Spanish royal families vis a vis their respective monarchs. Curtsying or bowing seem to have been abandoned though in Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands.
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  #2839  
Old 12-25-2017, 01:22 PM
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Just to repeat again that we are not British 'subjects.' We are British citizens. I should know, my husband naturalised in April 2016 and he became a citizen. The whole subject thing ended in the 1940s but some Americans persist in using the anachronistic term.
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  #2840  
Old 12-25-2017, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I'm glad Meghan curtseyed before the queen. I thought we wouldn't see her first curtsy until her wedding day. If she didn't here the press would have dragged her for days. And with all the fuss about who curtseys to whom why didn't the blood princesses (Beatrice and Eugenie) do so? Also, does Meghan receive a bow or curtsy now? At the Nottingham event I saw a woman cursty to Meghan as she shook her hand.
Someone posted on the Christmas thread that they only bow/curtsey when first meeting the Queen. The Cambridges, Meghan, and Prince Harry didn't see the Queen before church so they bowed and curtsied when she arrived. The others, who stayed at Sandringham, already met the Queen and bowed / curtsied earlier.

Meghan receives curtseys from women and bows from men but no one is obligated to do either.
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