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  #2781  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I don't honestly think that Meghan being American will figure into it at all whether or not she curtsies to the Queen or anyone else. If and when she does, it will be done solely out of deep respect and admiration for the position that HM holds and will be done solely because she *wants* to.

If Meghan can be so aware of other people that she freely offers up her own hand warmer to a stranger, I would be my last candy cane that she would be very aware of the positions and the roles and the respect that should be given to HM, The Queen and each and every other royal that is going to be part and parcel of her family.
I know that. And I have no doubt that Meghan would do so without being required to, but out of respect. And it was very obvious in the engagement interview that she had a lot of respect for HMQ and this institution she will devote her life to. But the point was towards all this talk about who has to walk behind whom and basically Meghan knowing her place is behind Kate and I got a whole article about this whole protocol. So if we are strictly going by protocol, she doesn't have to curtsey unlike everyone else. She's the one person in that family, other than the Queen, that technically doesn't have to curtsey to anyone.
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  #2782  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:44 AM
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I think that following an edict that came in the early 2000s, married-in wives had to curtsey to blood Princesses, ie Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie, Alexandra, unless their husbands were present. Also curtseys were required for the married ins for HM, Prince Philip and the Duchess of Cornwall and the Prince of Wales. In reality I don't think any of them curtsey to each other privately, except to the Queen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rincesses.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-Eugenie.html
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  #2783  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:38 AM
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The precedence was changed. Speaking of things like seating, entering and exiting and such. Some people, thanks to reporters, have taken that one step further in believing that means that they bow and curtsey to each other.

What seems, at least in public (and it seems unlikely its even more formal in private) they only bow to people of higher rank. And that isn't precedence. Higher rank is a HRH bows to a HM. We don't see them bowing to Charles and Camilla though they are ranked higher then everyone but the queen and Philip. When foreign royals visit, they only bow if they are visiting sovereigns.
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  #2784  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:10 PM
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Rundown of who - and when - Meghan will be expected to curtsey. (And who will be curtseying to her.)

Who does Meghan Markle have to curtsey to? | Daily Mail Online
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  #2785  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
Rundown of who - and when - Meghan will be expected to curtsey. (And who will be curtseying to her.)

Who does Meghan Markle have to curtsey to? | Daily Mail Online
Iím wondering when the media will understand that members of the royal family donít curtsy to each other?
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  #2786  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Iím wondering when the media will understand that members of the royal family donít curtsy to each other?

When did they stop that Dman.?

I very much thought they still did. (Especially in private get togethers.)
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  #2787  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
When did they stop that Dman.?

I very much thought they still did. (Especially in private get togethers.)
Unless Iíve missed it, thereís no evidence that members of the royal family curtsy to one another. They curtsy to The Queen. Catherine has been seen curtsying to the Duke of Edinburgh, but no one in the family curtsy to one another.

Meghan will be curtsying to The Queen and Foreign Monarchs.
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  #2788  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
Rundown of who - and when - Meghan will be expected to curtsey. (And who will be curtseying to her.)

Who does Meghan Markle have to curtsey to? | Daily Mail Online
This article is silly. Philip knew about royal etiquette his entire young life before he married HM. He was never surprised about the aspects of court obeisance.
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  #2789  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:14 AM
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The media won't care or stop such articles. Clickbait. In 20-30 years, there will be reports about who Prince George's wife has to curtsey to.
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  #2790  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:32 AM
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The custom is to curtsey/bow to someone of a higher rank then you. Not someone of higher precedence then you. You bow to the queen because she is an HM, HRH don't bow to another HRH. That is why we don't see people bowing to Charles and Camilla who are right below the queen and Philip.

Just as when there are visiting royals. They wouldn't be expected to bow if say Mary and Fred came to visit, but would to Margrethe.

Precedence is followed in private. And it is said the queen has switched it up in private. But that refers to seating, entrance and such.
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  #2791  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:42 AM
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The media, and many royal followers mistake 'precedence' for curtseying and as a result assume that if a person has to give way to another they also have to curtsey.

The royals do not curtsey to each other to a large extent.

Who will Meghan curtsey to - The Queen and maybe Philip as her consort. That is it.

Who will she give way to when about to enter a room - that will vary according to the situation:

If the event is a full public event she will give way to those ahead of Harry in the Order of Precedence (although the BRF have been following far more an order of succession rather than actual precedence in recent years). If true precedence is followed then she would be behind all of the Queen's children and William and Kate but if they follow just the line of succession then the Queen, Charles and William obviously - and in time, George, Charlotte and #3.

When in private - it will depend on whether there are any men present:

If only women present then she will be behind ALL those born HRH Princess ... so behind Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie along with behind Camilla and William.

If any man if present - not just Harry - then she will take her precedence as if Harry was there.

The main reason for the private precedence is that it means that there is a clear order for them to enter rooms and sit down when they are all together so if they are all at Windsor and Meghan arrives at a door at exactly the same time as Beatrice then Beatrice enters first but if Meghan and Harry arrive at exactly the same time then they enter first (unless Harry is a gentleman in which case he would let all the women in before him).

Sadly any people simply don't get it ... because they are either obtuse or stupid or too lazy to try to understand.
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  #2792  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
This article is silly. Philip knew about royal etiquette his entire young life before he married HM. He was never surprised about the aspects of court obeisance.

Philip wasn't suprised.

He was joking about.

Doing a curtsey because he was in a skirt, (that is, he was in a kilt) - instead of doing a bow as a man would normally do.

(That's why the king wasn't amused.)
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  #2793  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The media, and many royal followers mistake 'precedence' for curtseying and as a result assume that if a person has to give way to another they also have to curtsey.

The royals do not curtsey to each other to a large extent.

Who will Meghan curtsey to - The Queen and maybe Philip as her consort. That is it.

Who will she give way to when about to enter a room - that will vary according to the situation:

If the event is a full public event she will give way to those ahead of Harry in the Order of Precedence (although the BRF have been following far more an order of succession rather than actual precedence in recent years). If true precedence is followed then she would be behind all of the Queen's children and William and Kate but if they follow just the line of succession then the Queen, Charles and William obviously - and in time, George, Charlotte and #3.

When in private - it will depend on whether there are any men present:

If only women present then she will be behind ALL those born HRH Princess ... so behind Anne, Alexandra, Beatrice and Eugenie along with behind Camilla and William.

If any man if present - not just Harry - then she will take her precedence as if Harry was there.

The main reason for the private precedence is that it means that there is a clear order for them to enter rooms and sit down when they are all together so if they are all at Windsor and Meghan arrives at a door at exactly the same time as Beatrice then Beatrice enters first but if Meghan and Harry arrive at exactly the same time then they enter first (unless Harry is a gentleman in which case he would let all the women in before him).

Sadly any people simply don't get it ... because they are either obtuse or stupid or too lazy to try to understand.

Thanks for your patience Iluvbertie in explaining all this - and to all the other posters.

I don't know that people are obtuse, stupid or lazy - or too lazy - to understand.

Probably more that the whole Royal thing is just a passing interest and not something more than that in their lives.

Appreciate you all taking time out of your day to put on record the facts, and to spend time trying to dispel the myths.

(But that's a losing battle I guess, the media's reach is far greater than Royal blogs.This is currently the top story on both the US and the UK MailOnline sites, being read by what? - at least tens of thousands of people.)

Anyway, thanks everyone and best wishes.
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  #2794  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:41 AM
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I'm still laughing at the notion of Beatrice, Eugenie and I guess Louise and James having to curtsey to their cousin Harry. William yes, after he becomes king.
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  #2795  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:35 PM
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I'm still laughing at the notion of Beatrice, Eugenie and I guess Louise and James having to curtsey to their cousin Harry. William yes, after he becomes king.
Wouldn't Louise be a bit of a unique case in that she would have to curtsey to Harry in private by virtue of him being a Royal Highness and she being styled as the daughter of an Earl? I might be way off track with this one but I'm sure in the much shared clip on YouTube of the Royal Family gathering at Clarence House in the garden, Zara curtsied to the Prince of Wales?
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  #2796  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:43 PM
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I know the Queen changed the precedence for the women of the royal house when Camilla and Charles got married to blood royal princesses takes precedence in absence of the husband. However, I wonder if Charles will follow this or change it back to how it was before?
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  #2797  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:10 PM
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TBH as Camilla, as his consort, would be above them all he may well keep it the same.
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  #2798  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:20 PM
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Just as a reminder, we have the following thread to discuss the Order of Precedence:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ence-6536.html
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  #2799  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:30 PM
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In Norway there's been more normal than before for ordinary people to bow/curtsey to the King (due to his popularity).

Some politicians/diplomats does it as well, and here's a photo of Denmarks new ambassador to Norway Jarl Frijs-Madsen bowing to HM during the formal audience in September:
https://scanpix.no/spWebApp/preview/editorial/tc3a4ae6
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  #2800  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
Wouldn't Louise be a bit of a unique case in that she would have to curtsey to Harry in private by virtue of him being a Royal Highness and she being styled as the daughter of an Earl? I might be way off track with this one but I'm sure in the much shared clip on YouTube of the Royal Family gathering at Clarence House in the garden, Zara curtsied to the Prince of Wales?


Nope, Zara just hugs her uncle while Charles is seated. The Queen, Philip and the Queen Mum are the only one that are bow/curtesy to in the video. Just watched it.
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