Bowing and Curtseying

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Dman

He's not confused to protocol. The President do not bow, but show respect by nodding to people. The Queen does this too when meeting people.

Don't forget, Mrs. Kennedy and her daughter curtseyed to The Queen. It's about how one goes about showing respect to people.

Confused or not he did bow at the waist to one of Arab rulers during his first presidency. There was a lot of carrying on about it.


LaRae

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Confused or not he did bow at the waist to one of Arab rulers during his first presidency. There was a lot of carrying on about it.


LaRae

The President conducts respectful nods, not bowing to other heads of state. Sometimes his nods are done a bit from the waste, but he never bow like royals would do.

The man knows his protocol, but he have lots of class and the media made too much about his nod to The Queen too.

I wonder if people made the same noise when Mrs. Kennedy and Caroline curtsied to The Queen?

[VictoriaB]

Originally Posted by Dman

The President conducts respectful nods, not bowing to other heads of state. Sometimes his nods are done a bit from the waste, but he never bow like royals would do.

The man knows his protocol, but he have lots of class and the media made too much about his nod to The Queen too.

I wonder if people made the same noise when Mrs. Kennedy and Caroline curtsied to The Queen?

Mrs Kennedy did not bow/curtsey to the Queen when she was the wife of a head of state, only after the President was killed. Caroline was never the wife of a head of state and therefore there was no protocol to say that she she should not.

William Manchester, in a very detailed book about the assassination of President Kennedy and the days following detailed the discussion referred to above by (I think) Moonmaiden. He goes on to say that before the President and Mrs Kennedy visited the Queen in London there had been a lot of discussion about whether Mrs Kennedy should curtsey and the advice of protocol was that as the wife of a head of state she should not. Mrs Kennedy took this advice.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Dman

The President conducts respectful nods, not bowing to other heads of state. Sometimes his nods are done a bit from the waste, but he never bow like royals would do.

The man knows his protocol, but he have lots of class and the media made too much about his nod to The Queen too.

I wonder if people made the same noise when Mrs. Kennedy and Caroline curtsied to The Queen?

Royal men rarely bow. They nod.

By definition when you bend at the torso it is Bowing. A nod is a movement of head and neck. When you incline your torso as well, its a bow.

Bow to the emperor
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100116213039

Bow to Saudi
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/file...ub508745d2.jpg

One to Chinese can be considered a nod as mainly head
http://16004-presscdn-0-50.pagely.ne...ama-hu-bow.jpg

And look at the new PM doing a full curtsey. Back in Jackie O's days it was the custom. Women still do a curtsey so no she wouldn't get slack now.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by VictoriaB

Mrs Kennedy did not bow/curtsey to the Queen when she was the wife of a head of state, only after the President was killed. Caroline was never the wife of a head of state and therefore there was no protocol to say that she she should not.

William Manchester, in a very detailed book about the assassination of President Kennedy and the days following detailed the discussion referred to above by (I think) Moonmaiden. He goes on to say that before the President and Mrs Kennedy visited the Queen in London there had been a lot of discussion about whether Mrs Kennedy should curtsey and the advice of protocol was that as the wife of a head of state she should not. Mrs Kennedy took this advice.

Really don't matter, the idea of an high profile American bowing or curtsying to a monarch or other leader still bother some people. I just think it's done out of respect though.

It's just like some people like to salute the President. If I met him or her, I would bow my head. Protocol is more relaxed now and it's all about the way you want to show your respect.

[Moonmaiden23]

When Caroline Kennedy presented her credentials to to the Emperor and Empress of Japan as President Obama's ambassador a few years ago, not only did she not wear formal dress as is customary, she did not bow or curtsy which I found a little off-putting. All the other ambassadors to the Imperial Court always do so.

There is a beautiful picture of Sidney Poitier in full morning dress giving the most elegant bow I have ever seen when he was presented as Bill Clinton's ambassador in the 90's.

Caroline's manners are usually impeccable so not sure what happened at her presentation. Her "Mummy" and her very proper British nanny Maud Shaw must have been spinning in their graves.

So no, I don't mind President Obama's faux pas(if that's what it was) with the Arab sheik.

At least he didn't high five the guy or pat him on the back!

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by Dman

Really don't matter, the idea of an high profile American bowing or curtsying to a monarch or other leader still bother some people. I just think it's done out of respect though.

It's just like some people like to salute the President. If I met him or her, I would bow my head. Protocol is more relaxed now and it's all about the way you want to show your respect.

I tend to agree. Each country has it's own customs and protocols, some formal and some not so formal. In the US, I am sure there are protocols when meeting the President - they may not include bowing or curtseying, but they still are protocols and should be respected in exactly the same way as one might respect the protocols in Japan.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Jacknch

I tend to agree. Each country has it's own customs and protocols, some formal and some not so formal. In the US, I am sure there are protocols when meeting the President - they may not include bowing or curtseying, but they still are protocols and should be respected in exactly the same way as one might respect the protocols in Japan.

He has tried to show some respect for other countries customs. He get some flack for it, but he do it in a way he feel is right.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Dman

The President conducts respectful nods, not bowing to other heads of state. Sometimes his nods are done a bit from the waste, but he never bow like royals would do.

The man knows his protocol, but he have lots of class and the media made too much about his nod to The Queen too.

I wonder if people made the same noise when Mrs. Kennedy and Caroline curtsied to The Queen?

I've seen the pictures...he is bowing from the waist. It is not even near a nod...way way past that.


IIRC Jackie was no longer the wife of a president at the time this occured, she was a private citizen.


LaRae

[Dman]

Moving Image-
Senator Robert Kennedy bowing to Her Majesty The Queen:
Camelot

Here Bobby was paying respect to The Queen with a bow.

Originally Posted by Pranter

I've seen the pictures...he is bowing from the waist. It is not even near a nod...way way past that.


IIRC Jackie was no longer the wife of a president at the time this occured, she was a private citizen.


LaRae

Nod or a bow, the President knows how to pay respect to monarchs. He's seen doing so here to the Emperor of Japan-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-emperor.html

He's criticized but in reality it's just his smooth style, swagger and class he's demonstrating.

[Moonmaiden23]

RFK was not the leader of the Free World like his older brother so it was okay for him to bow if that was his choice.

But the only Head of State that JFK or Jacqueline Kennedy every made obeisance to while in the White House was the pope, and in fact I have read that she genuflected three times when she was received in audience with John XXIII in 1962.

There is also film and still photography of her kneeling before Richard Cardinal Cushing on the steps of St. Matthews Cathedral at JFK's funeral.

[Osipi]

Regarding JFK and Jackie's showing respect and genuflecting in the presence of Pope John XXIII, there are two factors at work here. Although HH was considered the Head of State in the Vatican, the genuflecting was due to the fact that religiously, the Pope was a Catholic's representative of Christ on Earth and as members of the Catholic Church, both JFK and Jackie paid homage to their Pope. The same applies to Cardinal Cushing.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Dman

Moving Image-
Senator Robert Kennedy bowing to Her Majesty The Queen:
Camelot

Here Bobby was paying respect to The Queen with a bow.




Nod or a bow, the President knows how to pay respect to monarchs. He's seen doing so here to the Emperor of Japan-
Barack Obama criticised for 'treasonous' bow to Japanese emperor - Telegraph

He's criticized but in reality it's just his smooth style, swagger and class he's demonstrating.

Moonmaiden and Osipi already addressed the Bobby issue.


Smooth style class and swagger? Really? He's not a singer or a playboy he's a president.

Presidents in this country have no business bowing to any other head of state. It's not about him. It's about the office.


LaRae

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Moonmaiden and Osipi already addressed the Bobby issue.


Smooth style class and swagger? Really? He's not a singer or a playboy he's a president.

Presidents in this country have no business bowing to any other head of state. It's not about him. It's about the office.


LaRae

The President knows about protocol, Pranter. He's advised on this stuff on a regular bases. If there was a real problem with him doing it, he wouldn't be doing it. He's simply paying homage to the customs of the country he's visiting. He doesn't not have to do it, but that's the kind of guy he is. The man has too much class for people to understand.

I may not be President, but if I ever met The Queen, I will bow my head. I would even bow my head before the President. It's all about showing some respect for a Head of State in your own personal way.

There are people who curtsey before the President and some who bow. There some who even hug, kiss him and sometimes pick him up.

[Countessmeout]

I think the point being, not only Obama but any president, they are HOS. Like we wouldn't see Maxima bowing to QEII, a protocol would not have a president either. A bow or nod is a sign to someone of higher rank (HRH bowing HM but not to each other). Just as no one would expect QEII, sultan or emperor tot bow to Obama, same goes. In republics, Presidents rank equal with HM.

Obama bowing may be his attempt at respect, in reality is him stating he is lower than the queen. Not sure any republic would want their president to give that, but for a country who seems to think they rule the free world that sends a wrong message.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

I think the point being, not only Obama but any president, they are HOS. Like we wouldn't see Maxima bowing to QEII, a protocol would not have a president either. A bow or nod is a sign to someone of higher rank (HRH bowing HM but not to each other). Just as no one would expect QEII, sultan or emperor tot bow to Obama, same goes. In republics, Presidents rank equal with HM.

Obama bowing may be his attempt at respect, in reality is him stating he is lower than the queen. Not sure any republic would want their president to give that, but for a country who seems to think they rule the free world that sends a wrong message.

We know the protocol and he knows the protocol. This is just his own personal way of show some respect upon first time greetings. Obviously, his advisers don't seem to have a problem with it. He also don't do it all the time. He don't go bowing to everybody and to every Head of State. He knows he's the leader of the free world, and isn't expected to bow to anyone.

[Moonmaiden23]

I honestly don't understand the big deal about President Obama bowing to Japan and Saudi Arabia. I mean, certainly it was a gaffe in protocol, but he has always been utterly respectful and classy when he meets with foreign heads of state. I would much rather my president err on the side of respect than to insult someone.

QEII slipped her arm about Michelle Obama's waist when they were first introduced. Was that a disgraceful thing for HM to do?

Would it have been okay if President Obama had bowed low to...say... King Haakon of Norway instead of to the Arab or Japanese royalty?

President Bush was photographed walking around his ranch in Crawford Texas holding hands with an Arab sheik for crying out loud.

I think Obama would probably face impeachment if he had been spotted strolling around the Rose Garden doing that.

I agree with Dman. President Obama is a gracious classy man and was unaware of proper protocol. He should have been better coached by the State Dept or his Chief of Protocol.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I honestly don't understand the big deal about President Obama bowing to Japan and Saudi Arabia. I mean, certainly it was a gaffe in protocol, but he has always been utterly respectful and classy when he meets with foreign heads of state. I would much rather my president err on the side of respect than to insult someone.

QEII slipped her arm about Michelle Obama's waist when they were first introduced. Was that a disgraceful thing for HM to do?

Would it have been okay if President Obama had bowed low to...say... King Haakon of Norway instead of to the Arab or Japanese royalty?

President Bush was photographed walking around his ranch in Crawford Texas holding hands with an Arab sheik for crying out loud.

I think Obama would probably face impeachment if he had been spotted strolling around the Rose Garden doing that.

I agree with Dman. President Obama is a gracious classy man and was unaware of proper protocol. He should have been better coached by the State Dept or his Chief of Protocol.

He is briefed on protocol, but he's respectful in his own way. It's classy all the way.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Dman

He is briefed on protocol, but he's respectful in his own way. It's classy all the way.

Amen to that.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

I honestly don't understand the big deal about President Obama bowing to Japan and Saudi Arabia. I mean, certainly it was a gaffe in protocol, but he has always been utterly respectful and classy when he meets with foreign heads of state. I would much rather my president err on the side of respect than to insult someone.

QEII slipped her arm about Michelle Obama's waist when they were first introduced. Was that a disgraceful thing for HM to do?

Would it have been okay if President Obama had bowed low to...say... King Haakon of Norway instead of to the Arab or Japanese royalty?

President Bush was photographed walking around his ranch in Crawford Texas holding hands with an Arab sheik for crying out loud.

I think Obama would probably face impeachment if he had been spotted strolling around the Rose Garden doing that.

I agree with Dman. President Obama is a gracious classy man and was unaware of proper protocol. He should have been better coached by the State Dept or his Chief of Protocol.

The people complaining are Americans who think their president bowing to Anyone, is subservient not respectful. For people who think Obama is President of 90 countries (so called self-proclaimed leaders of the free world ) it is confusing.

Now who is making it about race He shook hands with a sheikh?? So???

I guess Obama has been impeached. He has shaken hands with plenty

Not rose gardens but Camp David (CP of Saudi Arabia)
Obama Arab Summit.JPEG-04b5f.jpg - Washington Times

Better get impeaching, here he goes again
Obama vows to 'stand by' Gulf allies amid concern over Iran threat | Reuters


The difference, a handshake, hug, nod are acknowledgement to equals. A bow is a sign of obedience.

Not saying I Agree, simply understand why some find their president bowing to royal unnerving.

Our PM, who she is his superior directly, only nods
Queen Elizabeth II Photos - Queen Elizabeth II Meets Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau - Zimbio