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  #1  
Old 08-15-2020, 02:31 AM
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About Royal Institutions, Titles and Hierarchy in the 7 European Kingdoms

Sweden:
The Institutions:
  • "Sveriges Kungahus" = "Swedish Royal Court"
    • The organisation that supports the Head of State and the Royal Family
  • "Det Kungl. Huset" = "The Royal House"
  • "Den Kungl. Familjen" = "The Royal Family"
The Hierarchy and Titles:
  1. The King/Queen Regnant and the Queen Consort/Prince Consort
    • The Head of State and his/her spouse
    • Title: HM King, HM Queen, HRH Prince (Prince Consort)
      (e.g. Frederik I is known as HRH Prince Frederik of Sweden before 1720)
  2. The Crown Prince/Princess
    • The first in line to the Swedish throne who is also an heir apparent, and his/her spouse
      (e.g. Crown Princess Victoria) (Prince Bertil was first in line in 1973, but was never a Crown Prince)
    • Title: HRH Crown Princess, HRH Crown Prince
      (not used by spouses of the heiress apparent, e.g. Prince Daniel is not known as the Crown Prince)
  3. The heir to the apparent to the heir apparent and his/her heir, etc. and their spouses
    • Those whose position in line to the throne cannot be displaced and their spouses
      (e.g. Prince Gustaf Adolf and Princess Estelle)
    • Title: HRH Prince, HRH Princess
  4. The siblings (born after 1977) / brothers (born before 1977) of Groups 1-3 members, and their spouses
    (e.g. Prince Carl Philip, Princess Sofia, Princess Madeleine and Prince Oscar)
    • Title: HRH Prince, HRH Princess
  5. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1977 who were either married with governmental consent or unmarried
    (e.g. Married: Princess Birgitta, Princess Ingrid / Unmarried: Princess Eugenie)
    • Title: HRH Princess
  6. The children of Group 4 members
    (e.g. Prince Lennart before 1932, Princess Leonore, Prince Alexander)
    • Title: Prince, Princess (had HRH title before 2019)
  7. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1977 who did not marry with governmental consent
    (e.g. Princess Margaretha, Princess Desirée, Princess Christina)
    • Title: Princess, (female variant of spouse's title)
  8. The brothers of Groups 1-3 members born before 1977 who did not marry with governmental consent
    (e.g. Oscar, Carl, Sigvard, Lennart, Carl Johan)
    • Title: Count of Wisborg / Prince Bernadotte (not granted by Sweden)
  9. All others
    (e.g. Baudouin of Belgium, Harald V of Norway, Charles Edward Ambler, Carl Gustaf Victor Magnuson, Folke Bernadotte)
    • No Swedish titles
Groups 1-5 constitute the Royal House, Groups 1-4 and 6 has succession rights while Groups 1-8 constitute the Royal Family, provided that they are Swedish citizens. (Hence Christopher O'Neill, despite being the spouse of Princess Madeleine, is NEITHER a Prince of Sweden, NOR the Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland)
-
Rules for other royal families will be in the next post of the same thread some days later.
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:43 AM
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Norway (after 1905):
The Institutions:
  • "Det Kongelege hoffet" = "The Royal Court"
    • The organisation that assists the Royal Family in the exercise of its office and responsible for ensuring the efficient management of the Royal Palace and the other Royal properties, assets and trusts.
  • "Kongehuset" = "The Royal House"
  • "Kongefamilien" = "The Royal Family"
The Hierarchy and Titles:
  1. The King/Queen Regnant and the Queen Consort/Prince Consort
    • The Head of State and his/her spouse
    • Title: HM King, HM Queen, HRH Prince? (Prince Consort, never existed so far)
      (The Last Queen Regnant in Norway is Margrete Valdemarsdatter who succeeded her husband, who is Haakon VI of Norway.
      The Title for Ingrid Alexandra's spouse is still unknown.)
  2. The Crown Prince/Princess
    • The first in line to the Norwegian throne, and his/her spouse
      (e.g. Crown Prince Olav and Crown Princess Märtha before 1957, Crown Prince Harald and Crown Princess Sonja before 1991,
      Crown Prince Haakon and Crown Princess Mette-Marit)

      (The Three Kings of Norway had only one son each
      before absolute primogeniture is established for I-A's generation,
      will Sverre Magnus become Crown Prince before I-A gives birth to her child?)
    • Title: HRH Crown Prince, HRH Crown Princess
      (will it be used by I-A's spouse or will he just be a Prince like Prince Daniel of Sweden?)
  3. The heir to the apparent to the heir apparent and his/her heir, etc. and their spouses? (never existed so far)
    • Those whose position in line to the throne cannot be displaced and their spouses
      (e.g. Prince Haakon before 1991, Princess Ingrid Alexandra)
    • Title: HRH Prince, HRH Princess
  4. The siblings (born after 1990) / brothers? (born before 1990) (never existed) of Groups 1-3 members, and their spouses? (never existed so far)
    (e.g. Prince Sverre Magnus)
    • Title: HH Prince, HH Princess
  5. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1990 who were either married with governmental consent or unmarried? (never existed)
    (e.g. Princess Märtha Louise)
    • Title: HH Princess
  6. The children of Group 4 members? (never existed so far)
    • Title: ?
  7. The children of Group 5 members
    (e.g. Maud Angelica Behn, Leah Isadora Behn, Emma Tallulah Behn)
    • No Norwegian titles
  8. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1990 who did not marry with governmental consent
    (e.g. Princess Ragnhild, Princess Astrid)
    • Title: HH Princess, (female variant of spouse's title)
  9. All others
    (e.g. Haakon Lorentzen, Cathrine Ferner)
    • No Norwegian titles
Groups 1-3 constitutes the Royal House, Groups 1-7 has succession rights while Groups 1-8 constitutes the Royal Family. Marius Borg Høiby, the son of Crown Princess Mette-Marit, is also a member of the Royal Family but has no succession rights.
-
Source: royalcourt.no and kongehuset.no
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2021, 06:01 AM
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See the attached file for a summary of royal titles and styles currently in use in the following jurisfictions:


  1. The United Kingdom.
  2. Spain.
  3. Belgium and the Netherlands.
  4. Denmark and Sweden.
Attached Files
File Type: doc royal-titles-Europe.doc (81.0 KB, 14 views)
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2021, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
See the attached file for a summary of royal titles and styles currently in use in the following jurisfictions:


  1. The United Kingdom.
  2. Spain.
  3. Belgium and the Netherlands.
  4. Denmark and Sweden.
Out of curiosity, is there a reason you included all of the kingdoms in Europe excepting Norway?
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2021, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Out of curiosity, is there a reason you included all of the kingdoms in Europe excepting Norway?
Probably because the Norwegian nobility was legally abolished in 1821.
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  #6  
Old 03-22-2021, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Probably because the Norwegian nobility was legally abolished in 1821.
But Mbruno's summary covers royal titles and styles, and the Norwegian monarchy was never abolished. (He covered noble titles in a separate document here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2383536)
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2021, 07:32 AM
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Oh sorry, yes I was thinking of that other post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
But Mbruno's summary covers royal titles and styles, and the Norwegian monarchy was never abolished. (He covered noble titles in a separate document here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2383536)
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  #8  
Old 03-22-2021, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Out of curiosity, is there a reason you included all of the kingdoms in Europe excepting Norway?

Because the OP had already discussed Norway above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Oh sorry, yes I was thinking of that other post


Actually, in that other post, I was going to mention in the Denmark/Sweden sectiion that the Norwegian nobility had been abolished, but I got lazy of writing too much and didn't do it.

To be honest, I don't know much about Norway either, so I usually refrain from commenting on Norwegian topics.
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2021, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Because the OP had already discussed Norway above. [...] To be honest, I don't know much about Norway either, so I usually refrain from commenting on Norwegian topics.
I see. I do enjoy your meticulous discussions of titles, though, so I would be interested in reading should you ever comment on Norway. Thanks for the summaries of the other kingdoms' systems.
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2021, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929 View Post
Norway (after 1905):
The Institutions:
  • "Det Kongelege hoffet" = "The Royal Court"
    • The organisation that assists the Royal Family in the exercise of its office and responsible for ensuring the efficient management of the Royal Palace and the other Royal properties, assets and trusts.
  • "Kongehuset" = "The Royal House"
  • "Kongefamilien" = "The Royal Family"
The Hierarchy and Titles:
  1. The King/Queen Regnant and the Queen Consort/Prince Consort
    • The Head of State and his/her spouse
    • Title: HM King, HM Queen, HRH Prince? (Prince Consort, never existed so far)
      (The Last Queen Regnant in Norway is Margrete Valdemarsdatter who succeeded her husband, who is Haakon VI of Norway.
      The Title for Ingrid Alexandra's spouse is still unknown.)
  2. The Crown Prince/Princess
    • The first in line to the Norwegian throne, and his/her spouse
      (e.g. Crown Prince Olav and Crown Princess Märtha before 1957, Crown Prince Harald and Crown Princess Sonja before 1991,
      Crown Prince Haakon and Crown Princess Mette-Marit)

      (The Three Kings of Norway had only one son each
      before absolute primogeniture is established for I-A's generation,
      will Sverre Magnus become Crown Prince before I-A gives birth to her child?)
    • Title: HRH Crown Prince, HRH Crown Princess
      (will it be used by I-A's spouse or will he just be a Prince like Prince Daniel of Sweden?)
  3. The heir to the apparent to the heir apparent and his/her heir, etc. and their spouses? (never existed so far)
    • Those whose position in line to the throne cannot be displaced and their spouses
      (e.g. Prince Haakon before 1991, Princess Ingrid Alexandra)
    • Title: HRH Prince, HRH Princess
  4. The siblings (born after 1990) / brothers? (born before 1990) (never existed) of Groups 1-3 members, and their spouses? (never existed so far)
    (e.g. Prince Sverre Magnus)
    • Title: HH Prince, HH Princess
  5. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1990 who were either married with governmental consent or unmarried? (never existed)
    (e.g. Princess Märtha Louise)
    • Title: HH Princess
  6. The children of Group 4 members? (never existed so far)
    • Title: ?
  7. The children of Group 5 members
    (e.g. Maud Angelica Behn, Leah Isadora Behn, Emma Tallulah Behn)
    • No Norwegian titles
  8. The sisters of Groups 1-3 members born before 1990 who did not marry with governmental consent
    (e.g. Princess Ragnhild, Princess Astrid)
    • Title: HH Princess, (female variant of spouse's title)
  9. All others
    (e.g. Haakon Lorentzen, Cathrine Ferner)
    • No Norwegian titles
Groups 1-3 constitutes the Royal House, Groups 1-7 has succession rights while Groups 1-8 constitutes the Royal Family. Marius Borg Høiby, the son of Crown Princess Mette-Marit, is also a member of the Royal Family but has no succession rights.
-
Source: royalcourt.no and kongehuset.no
Thank you for the summary! It is worth mentioning that HH is only meant to be used outside of Norway. For that reason, it is not used on the Norwegian version of kongehuset.no.

https://www.kongehuset.no/seksjon.ht...7163&sek=26940


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929 View Post
will Sverre Magnus become Crown Prince before I-A gives birth to her child?)
Are you referring to a scenario in which the still-childless Ingrid Alexandra is Crown Princess or a scenario in which she is Queen?

In the first scenario I would think it highly unlikely, as neither Princess Märtha Louise nor Princess Ragnhild were Crown Princess while their respective brothers were childless Crown Princes.

In the second scenario I think it would be possible, as he would be the heir to the throne, and many European countries have extended the traditional titles of the monarch's eldest son to the heir or heiress to the throne irrespective of their relationship to the monarch.
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2021, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Are you referring to a scenario in which the still-childless Ingrid Alexandra is Crown Princess or a scenario in which she is Queen?

In the first scenario I would think it highly unlikely, as neither Princess Märtha Louise nor Princess Ragnhild were Crown Princess while their respective brothers were childless Crown Princes.

In the second scenario I think it would be possible, as he would be the heir to the throne, and many European countries have extended the traditional titles of the monarch's eldest son to the heir or heiress to the throne irrespective of their relationship to the monarch.
I assumed the latter. There are also examples that did not confer the traditional title. Belgium didn't confer the title 'Duke of Brabant' on Prince Albert (who was the Prince of Liege) when his brother was king; as this title is reserved for the oldest son (now child) of the king.

Are there any Scandinavian examples of the title of Crown prince(ss) being held by a sibling of the monarch? Knud for example was never the 'Crown prince' - but was known as 'Hereditary Prince' (I don't think it was an official title but please correct me if I'm wrong) when first in line to the throne. In Sweden, Bertil was never the Crown prince while being first in line to the throne from the day his nephew became king until the king's son was born.

So, to me, it doesn't seem likely. Especially not while Queen I-A would still be of childbearing age; they might create a title like 'Hereditary Prince' instead?!
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2021, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I assumed the latter. There are also examples that did not confer the traditional title. Belgium didn't confer the title 'Duke of Brabant' on Prince Albert (who was the Prince of Liege) when his brother was king; as this title is reserved for the oldest son (now child) of the king.

Are there any Scandinavian examples of the title of Crown prince(ss) being held by a sibling of the monarch? Knud for example was never the 'Crown prince' - but was known as 'Hereditary Prince' (I don't think it was an official title but please correct me if I'm wrong) when first in line to the throne. In Sweden, Bertil was never the Crown prince while being first in line to the throne from the day his nephew became king until the king's son was born.

My understanding is that the term "Crown Prince" in Scandinavia applies to the heir apparent to the throne whereas "Hereditary Prince" in Knud's case was a title that applied to a male heir presumptive.

In Sweden, Carl Gustaf for example became Crown Prince when his grandfather ascended the throne because, even though he was not a son of the King, he was at that time the heir apparent (as he had outlived his father).


In summary, as I understand it:


1. Prince of Asturias: heir presumptive, male or female, automatic.


2. Prince of Orange: heir presumptive, male or female, automatic.


3. Crown Prince (Scandinavia): heir apparent only, previously male only, automatic.


4. Prince of Wales: heir apparent only, male only, must be granted separately.
.

5. Duke of Brabant: eldest child of the King, automatic; if the Duke of Brabant has issue and the King outlives the Duke of Brabant, the title passes automatically to the Duke's eldest child.
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2021, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Are there any Scandinavian examples of the title of Crown prince(ss) being held by a sibling of the monarch?
Yes in Denmark (for sisters of future monarchs). Christian VI introduced the rule that the eldest daughter of the King enjoyed the title of Crown Princess unless and until she, or the eldest son of the King (the Crown Prince), was married. (Historians of today normally call them Princesses, but the titles are always written in 17th and 18th century publications.)

This rule appears to have been repealed by Frederik IX, since his daughter Margrethe (the present Queen) was not styled Crown Princess when her father ascended the throne.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
In Sweden, Bertil was never the Crown prince while being first in line to the throne from the day his nephew became king until the king's son was born.

So, to me, it doesn't seem likely.
But as I said, other European monarchies have altered the same rule, and of those, some are more wed to tradition than the Norwegian monarchy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
whereas "Hereditary Prince" in Knud's case was a title that applied to a male heir presumptive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Knud for example was never the 'Crown prince' - but was known as 'Hereditary Prince' (I don't think it was an official title but please correct me if I'm wrong) when first in line to the throne.
Knud was known as Prince Knud when he was first in line to the throne. When he lost his position to his niece Margrethe he was conferred with the title of Hereditary Prince.

https://trondni.blogspot.com/2010/02...d-be-king.html
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  #14  
Old 03-22-2021, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
This rule appears to have been repealed by Frederik IX, since his daughter Margrethe (the present Queen) was not styled Crown Princess when her father ascended the throne.


Knud was known as Prince Knud when he was first in line to the throne. When he lost his position to his niece Margrethe he was conferred with the title of Hereditary Prince.

https://trondni.blogspot.com/2010/02...d-be-king.html

Thank you for the correction. Was Knud ever given the title of Tronfølgeren as Margrethe was ?


Traditionally, I still think Arveprins was the title of a male heir presumptive. I wonder why the title was not given to Knud in 1947-1953.
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Old 03-22-2021, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Thank you for the correction. Was Knud ever given the title of Tronfølgeren as Margrethe was ?
Yes, he was; I understand that to be what the article is referencing regarding his officially becoming "Heir to the Throne".


Adding onto my previous post, the rules conferring the traditional titles on heirs presumptive were modified for Spain in 1987 (although the Spanish rules had been modified at various times before), for the Netherlands and Monaco in 2002, and for Luxembourg in 2012. The examples of Albert of Belgium, Knud of Denmark and Bertil of Sweden all predate this trend.
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  #16  
Old 03-22-2021, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Yes, he was; I understand that to be what the article is referencing regarding his officially becoming "Heir to the Throne".


Adding onto my previous post, the rules conferring the traditional titles on heirs presumptive were modified for Spain in 1987 (although the Spanish rules had been modified at various times before), for the Netherlands and Monaco in 2002, and for Luxembourg in 2012. The examples of Albert of Belgium, Knud of Denmark and Bertil of Sweden all predate this trend.
But an heir presumptive still cannot be Duke of Brabant and, apparently, the rules have not been changed yet in Denmark and Sweden either (or at least we won't know that until a new concrete case arises).
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Old 03-22-2021, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Traditionally, I still think Arveprins was the title of a male heir presumptive. I wonder why the title was not given to Knud in 1947-1953.
I'm not sure, but the tradition was not treated as automatic. Hereditary Prince was not given to Christian Frederik in 1808-1839 or to Christian in 1863.

King Frederik IX, as I mentioned above, breached tradition in denying his unmarried daughter the title of Crown Princess when he ascended the throne, so perhaps he was a minimalist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
But an heir presumptive still cannot be Duke of Brabant and, apparently, the rules have not been changed yet in Denmark and Sweden either (or at least we won't know that until a new concrete case arises).
Yes, my understanding is that there are no official rules set out in the Scandinavian monarchies, as least as far as we know. Out of the European monarchies with official rules governing crown princely titles, four have made them automatic for any presumptive heir (Spain, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Monaco), two have made them automatic for heirs apparent who are children or grandchildren to the monarch (Belgium and Liechtenstein), and one has not made its primary title automatic for any heir (the United Kingdom).
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  #18  
Old 03-23-2021, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I
King Frederik IX, as I mentioned above, breached tradition in denying his unmarried daughter the title of Crown Princess when he ascended the throne, so perhaps he was a minimalist.




When he ascended the Throne Margrethe was not even in line of succession. He only could have given her the Title Crown Princess after the change of the succession law in 1953.
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Old 03-23-2021, 05:47 AM
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It's really quite simple:
The Crown Prince = Always the oldest living (unless bypassed for physical or mental reasons) child of the monarch.
The Successor (Tronfølger) = A child of the monarch who is the official heir under the condition that XYZ doesn't happen.
The Hereditary Prince (Arveprins) = The next in line from another branch of the family. In case the monarch is childless or the children have malfunctioned.

In DK the title of Crown Prince/ss is automatically given to the oldest living child of the monarch. - That is ensured in the Constitution, because the Crown Prince has a specific constitutional role.
But The Heir (Arvingen) or The Successor (Tronfølgeren) are also unofficial titles for the Crown Prince, so constitutionally speaking these titles makes no difference.
Just as the unofficial titles of The Monarch, The Majesty or The Regent are sometimes used for the King/Queen.

So in the case of Norway. Magnus may be Arveprins Magnus (Hereditary Prince) when it is assumed or determined that queen Ingrid is unlikely to have children of her own. Say when she's around 45.
He will not become crown prince, because he is not a child of Ingrid, and because she might theoretically have a child.
But Norway basically being a hereditary republic, I think it's likely that Magnus will simply keep his title as Prince, and become king when Ingrid dies, childless. He will perform the same functions as a crown prince or hereditary heir, just without the title.
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Old 03-23-2021, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Yes in Denmark (for sisters of future monarchs). Christian VI introduced the rule that the eldest daughter of the King enjoyed the title of Crown Princess unless and until she, or the eldest son of the King (the Crown Prince), was married. (Historians of today normally call them Princesses, but the titles are always written in 17th and 18th century publications.)

This rule appears to have been repealed by Frederik IX, since his daughter Margrethe (the present Queen) was not styled Crown Princess when her father ascended the throne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
When he ascended the Throne Margrethe was not even in line of succession. He only could have given her the Title Crown Princess after the change of the succession law in 1953.
When they received the title of Crown Princess, none of the eldest daughters who carried the title were in the direct line of succession, since Denmark used semi-Salic succession from 1665-1853. Only if there were no males in paternal line available could the Crown Princess, or any other Princess, ascend the throne.

For that reason, I don't think Margrethe's exclusion from the succession was the reason for the change of tradition. And had it been the (only) reason, she would have received it when she was given succession rights in 1953.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In DK the title of Crown Prince/ss is automatically given to the oldest living child of the monarch. - That is ensured in the Constitution, because the Crown Prince has a specific constitutional role.

[...]

So in the case of Norway. Magnus may be Arveprins Magnus (Hereditary Prince) when it is assumed or determined that queen Ingrid is unlikely to have children of her own. Say when she's around 45.
He will not become crown prince, because he is not a child of Ingrid, and because she might theoretically have a child.
Neither the Danish or Norwegian constitutions currently specify the title of the oldest child of the monarch or the heir to the throne. (To be clear, I am not disputing that it is the tradition to limit Crown Prince to the male heir apparent.)
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