Royals and Religion

[TheTruth]

QE II seems quite religious. She didn't allow Charles and Diana to attend a mass given by the Pope Jean-paul II, when visiting the Vatican.

[Aurora810]

This is a very interesting topic! I'm curious about the comments of Princess Mathilde and Princess Mary being considered really religious. I'm not doubting it or anything but what makes one believe they are religious or a devout Christian? Just curious about the basis for those thoughts?

[GlitteringTiaras]

I'm not so sure if Crown Princess Mary is devoutly religious, but I do know that Queen Margrethe is.

It has been reported over and over again that the Queen attends Mass (rather service for Protestants) on a regular basis. It is something that I do believe she is quite proud of as she should be.

[acdc1]

I think that it really matters with what you define as "religious". "Religious" could go so far to mean that you don't miss a Sunday, know all prayers, hymns, Hail Mary's, creeds, etc. by heart, and pray all five times a day if Muslim. Or it could mean that you attend church fairly often, know some hymns, etc. Or it could mean once and a while going to church.

[Vanesa]

Originally Posted by Henri M.

Males: The Prince of Orange (already since his confirmation -and still- faithfully following bible class with his year-mates from university, including discussion- and reading weekends under direction of the Court Chaplain)

Females: Queen Fabiola of the Belgians, the Nun-Queen

Yes. Queen Fabiola is the most religious women among the Royals. But I wouldn't call her "the Nun-Queen". She was married to King Baoudouin (he was very religious too), and as you know, nuns are not allowed to marry. Accomplishing your religious duties is not to be a nun or a priest, but a good Catholic. I must say that Queen Fabiola is a rol model for me, and the best characterization of how a Catholic Queen must be.

I'm also happy to hear that the Prince of Orange is very religious.

But I'm curious about not-western Royals. I'm wondering which of them are very religious in the Muslim, Buddisth, Shintoist or Hinduist world. For exampleoes Prince Naruhito attends Shintoist religious ceremonies often? And how about King Bhumibol and Buddist faith? I read somewhere that Mohammed Reza Pahlavi Shah's mother was very religious (while her husband was quite the contrary)....

Vanesa.

[User0501]

Originally Posted by Aquarela

In my opinion, Princess Mathilde seems to have strong religious beliefs.

I think Princess Mary is a devout christian too.

About Queens: I read that Queen Sofia has a close relationship with God.

The most religious queen is HM Queen Elizabeth II of Britain.

[trinny]

Originally Posted by Aquarela

I think Princess Mary is a devout christian too.

Hi Aquarela ,

I'm really interested to hear this!
Would you mind telling me how you came to this conclusion?

I've never heard anything like this said about CP Mary.
I'm really curious!

Thank you.
trinny

[Madame Royale]

Mary's a practicing christian, having been raised a Presbyterian and acknowledging the Lutheran denomination as her own upon marriage, but that's all I know of her religious adherence

Well, that and the services HRH has attended in an official capacity or with the Royal Family.

[carlota]

i wouldn't say any of the queens or princesses who changed religion can be considered as religious at all. i find it quite like something they do to please the public. you can of course become closer to the religion and experience it a little bit more, but if it isn't your own choice, i wouldn't qualify it as "being really religious".

queen noor, for example, changed religion because she wanted to. she admits in her biography king hussein didn't ask her to become muslim, but she did it because she wanted to. in this case, it can be considered fervent religiousness, imo.

among the european royals i would say mathilde, maxima and maria teresa of luxembourg are amongst the most religious ones. the belgian royal family (including queen fabiola) seems to have really strong catholic convictions and both maxima and maria teresa have been raised in really catholic countries. i'd like to note and to emphasize as well maxima's desire to stay catholic, although marrying a protestant crown prince, which i always admired of her: staying true to herself and the ideals she was raised with, instead of just changing your religion because "the script demands it".

among the queens, i'd say queen noor, queen rania, queen fabiola and queen paola are the most religious queens. the late grand duchess josephine charlotte also seemed to be very catholic.

[Regina]

I see Máxima as a devout Catholic since she didn't want to change her beliefs after the wedding. Imo that tells a lot about her strong and sincere personality.

[Aquarela]

Originally Posted by Regina

I see Máxima as a devout Catholic since she didn't want to change her beliefs after the wedding. Imo that tells a lot about her strong and sincere personality.

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

[Regina]

I believe Máxima knows a lot of religious songs too

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by Aquarela

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

The daughters of Princess Máxima are baptized in the Protestant Church. The Protestants do not have the tradition of very quick baptisms, soon after birth. And especially the baptism of Princess Catharina-Amalia, the Hereditary Princess of Orange, was a major affair which did need a lot of organization.

In the negotiations between the Orange-Nassaus and the Zorreguietas before the wedding it was agreed that Princess Máxima would study Protestantism but would follow the choice of her heart. Despite the study (following a few Protestant classes with the Court Chaplain) the Princess remained faithful to the Church of Rome. It was also agreed that the children would be given a Protestant upbringing "with Catholic elements". For all this, the Princess requested (and received) an official dispensation from Monseigneur A. van Luyn s.d.b., the Bishop of Rotterdam (the diocese in which her residence The Hague is situated).

The Princess indeed did travel a lot with the Prince before their marriage. But in between the first public appearance (January 31st 2001) and the wedding (February 2nd 2002) there was a year. You can not expect Miss Zorreguieta to be locked up in a monastery, can you? After all it was 2001 and not 1801.



By the way: since the official engagement (March 30th 2001) until the wedding (February 2nd 2002) Miss Zorreguieta lived in her own appartments at Huis ten Bosch Palace, the private residence of Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus. Under the spying eyes of her future in-laws, so to say. This was not together with her fiancée, who lived in another house in the centre of The Hague. So, all by all, we can say that the couple did it very orderly and very neat.

Princess Máxima was born in Buenos Aires and baptized in the Nuestra Señora del Socorro in Barrio Norte (Buenos Aires). She attends primary school at the Colegio Mallinkroth, led by German nuns. Until her 17th the Princess did attend Northlands College in Olivos (Buenos Aires), a bilingual school. After this she opted for the Pontificia Universidad Católica Argentina Santa María de Buenos Aires, instead for more neutral or more progressive universities.

[Madame Royale]

As a side note, I don't believe anyone here is in a position to question any royals dedication to their respective faith's. Questioning anothers relationship with God is not open for discussion I would have thought, purely based on the fact that no one understands such a unique relationship as it's something extremely personal. Though, here at the Forums...

Perhaps the thread could be titled...'Publically, who is the more religious Crown Princess/Queen?'

[Charlotte1]

Originally Posted by Vanesa

But I'm curious about not-western Royals. I'm wondering which of them are very religious in the Muslim, Buddisth, Shintoist or Hinduist world. For exampleoes Prince Naruhito attends Shintoist religious ceremonies often?
Vanesa.

Shintoism isn't a religion as such that a person who practises it is considered devout or there even being a fundamentalist version of it. There's no regular weekly observance, it's more of a way of life.
I think it would be safe to say that Naruhito attends Shinto shrines and ceremonies at the appropriate times. Last year he was photographed at the cemetery honouring his grandparents at OBon which is the festival to venerate your ancestors. He would go to the Shinto shrine at New Years as all Japanese do to pray for a good year. After he got married he and Masako travelled to Ise Shrine ( The St Peter's Basillica of Shinto) to pray.

As Shinto is a way of life its very accomodating to other religious practises as well. A Japanese person once explained Japanese religious practises like this to me. Shinto deals with living a good life so babies are taken to the Shrine to be prayed for, if a traditional wedding ( rare now a days) is held then it's Shinto, funerals are Buddhist as Buddhism deals with having a good after life. Once a year all Japanese are Christians ( Christmas!)

Neither Masako nor Michiko are Christian and yet both attended catholic schools. Michiko even graduated from a catholic university. So it would be safe to say that both of them are very familiar with catholic rituals.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

Neither Masako nor Michiko are Christian and yet both attended catholic schools. Michiko even graduated from a catholic university. So it would be safe to say that both of them are very familiar with catholic rituals.

Thanks for the interesting information, I didn't know this about Masako.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by Aquarela

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

i'm astonished by your views, aquarela. i find what you say rather ilogical:

you are saying that maxima is not a good catholic because she travelled a lot with willem-alexander before her marriage, but you say mary is a devout christian, even though she travelled during her engagement period as much as maxima (and even if they didn't travel, any of the two couples, we live in the 21st century, as i assume it's totally accetable for a couple to live together before marriage!). how can you judge on that?

you then say it's not acceptable for maxima to wait 6 months to baptise her daughters. may i remind you maxima's daughters are raised as protestants, just as their father, so it's up to the protestant faith and the royal protocol to decide when to baptise them. maxima probably has nothing to do with that.

what impressed me the most is the fact that you imply that you consider a person who has always been faithful to her views on religion "less devout" than a person who decided to change her religion some years ago, just because she knows how to sing songs at a christening.

[Madame Royale]

...than a person who decided to change her religion some years ago...

It was required of Mary, that upon marriage to the Crown Prince, that she henceforth relinquish her Presbyterian teachings and remain a practicing Evangelical Lutheran which, as we know, is the official state religion.

To imply that the change of her denomination was decided as if on a whim, and solely her choice, is not in any way accurate.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

It was required of Mary, that upon marriage to the Crown Prince, that she henceforth relinquish her Presbyterian teachings and remain a practicing Evangelical Lutheran which, as we know, is the official state religion.

To imply that the change of her denomination was decided as if on a whim, and solely her choice, is not in any way accurate.

Same with Queen Sofia, being raised greek orthodox but having to convert to catholizism before marrying Juan Carlos.

[kaffir]

Sheikha is it Hind? The one who won't let herself be photographed for religious reasons.