Royals and Religion

[TheTruth]

QE II seems quite religious. She didn't allow Charles and Diana to attend a mass given by the Pope Jean-paul II, when visiting the Vatican.

 

[Aurora810]

This is a very interesting topic! I'm curious about the comments of Princess Mathilde and Princess Mary being considered really religious. I'm not doubting it or anything but what makes one believe they are religious or a devout Christian? Just curious about the basis for those thoughts?

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I'm not so sure if Crown Princess Mary is devoutly religious, but I do know that Queen Margrethe is.

It has been reported over and over again that the Queen attends Mass (rather service for Protestants) on a regular basis. It is something that I do believe she is quite proud of as she should be.

 

[acdc1]

I think that it really matters with what you define as "religious". "Religious" could go so far to mean that you don't miss a Sunday, know all prayers, hymns, Hail Mary's, creeds, etc. by heart, and pray all five times a day if Muslim. Or it could mean that you attend church fairly often, know some hymns, etc. Or it could mean once and a while going to church.

 

[Vanesa]

Males: The Prince of Orange (already since his confirmation -and still- faithfully following bible class with his year-mates from university, including discussion- and reading weekends under direction of the Court Chaplain)

Females: Queen Fabiola of the Belgians, the Nun-Queen

Yes. Queen Fabiola is the most religious women among the Royals. But I wouldn't call her "the Nun-Queen". She was married to King Baoudouin (he was very religious too), and as you know, nuns are not allowed to marry. Accomplishing your religious duties is not to be a nun or a priest, but a good Catholic. I must say that Queen Fabiola is a rol model for me, and the best characterization of how a Catholic Queen must be.

I'm also happy to hear that the Prince of Orange is very religious.

But I'm curious about not-western Royals. I'm wondering which of them are very religious in the Muslim, Buddisth, Shintoist or Hinduist world. For exampleoes Prince Naruhito attends Shintoist religious ceremonies often? And how about King Bhumibol and Buddist faith? I read somewhere that Mohammed Reza Pahlavi Shah's mother was very religious (while her husband was quite the contrary)....

Vanesa.

 

[User0501]

In my opinion, Princess Mathilde seems to have strong religious beliefs.

I think Princess Mary is a devout christian too.

About Queens: I read that Queen Sofia has a close relationship with God.

The most religious queen is HM Queen Elizabeth II of Britain.

 

[trinny]

I think Princess Mary is a devout christian too.

Hi Aquarela ,

I'm really interested to hear this!
Would you mind telling me how you came to this conclusion?

I've never heard anything like this said about CP Mary.
I'm really curious!

Thank you.
trinny

 

[Madame Royale]

Mary's a practicing christian, having been raised a Presbyterian and acknowledging the Lutheran denomination as her own upon marriage, but that's all I know of her religious adherence

Well, that and the services HRH has attended in an official capacity or with the Royal Family.

 

[carlota]

i wouldn't say any of the queens or princesses who changed religion can be considered as religious at all. i find it quite like something they do to please the public. you can of course become closer to the religion and experience it a little bit more, but if it isn't your own choice, i wouldn't qualify it as "being really religious".

queen noor, for example, changed religion because she wanted to. she admits in her biography king hussein didn't ask her to become muslim, but she did it because she wanted to. in this case, it can be considered fervent religiousness, imo.

among the european royals i would say mathilde, maxima and maria teresa of luxembourg are amongst the most religious ones. the belgian royal family (including queen fabiola) seems to have really strong catholic convictions and both maxima and maria teresa have been raised in really catholic countries. i'd like to note and to emphasize as well maxima's desire to stay catholic, although marrying a protestant crown prince, which i always admired of her: staying true to herself and the ideals she was raised with, instead of just changing your religion because "the script demands it".

among the queens, i'd say queen noor, queen rania, queen fabiola and queen paola are the most religious queens. the late grand duchess josephine charlotte also seemed to be very catholic.

 

[Regina]

I see Máxima as a devout Catholic since she didn't want to change her beliefs after the wedding. Imo that tells a lot about her strong and sincere personality.

 

[Aquarela]

I see Máxima as a devout Catholic since she didn't want to change her beliefs after the wedding. Imo that tells a lot about her strong and sincere personality.

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

 

[Regina]

I believe Máxima knows a lot of religious songs too

 

[Henri M.]

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

The daughters of Princess Máxima are baptized in the Protestant Church. The Protestants do not have the tradition of very quick baptisms, soon after birth. And especially the baptism of Princess Catharina-Amalia, the Hereditary Princess of Orange, was a major affair which did need a lot of organization.

In the negotiations between the Orange-Nassaus and the Zorreguietas before the wedding it was agreed that Princess Máxima would study Protestantism but would follow the choice of her heart. Despite the study (following a few Protestant classes with the Court Chaplain) the Princess remained faithful to the Church of Rome. It was also agreed that the children would be given a Protestant upbringing "with Catholic elements". For all this, the Princess requested (and received) an official dispensation from Monseigneur A. van Luyn s.d.b., the Bishop of Rotterdam (the diocese in which her residence The Hague is situated).

The Princess indeed did travel a lot with the Prince before their marriage. But in between the first public appearance (January 31st 2001) and the wedding (February 2nd 2002) there was a year. You can not expect Miss Zorreguieta to be locked up in a monastery, can you? After all it was 2001 and not 1801.



By the way: since the official engagement (March 30th 2001) until the wedding (February 2nd 2002) Miss Zorreguieta lived in her own appartments at Huis ten Bosch Palace, the private residence of Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus. Under the spying eyes of her future in-laws, so to say. This was not together with her fiancée, who lived in another house in the centre of The Hague. So, all by all, we can say that the couple did it very orderly and very neat.

Princess Máxima was born in Buenos Aires and baptized in the Nuestra Señora del Socorro in Barrio Norte (Buenos Aires). She attends primary school at the Colegio Mallinkroth, led by German nuns. Until her 17th the Princess did attend Northlands College in Olivos (Buenos Aires), a bilingual school. After this she opted for the Pontificia Universidad Católica Argentina Santa María de Buenos Aires, instead for more neutral or more progressive universities.

 

[Madame Royale]

As a side note, I don't believe anyone here is in a position to question any royals dedication to their respective faith's. Questioning anothers relationship with God is not open for discussion I would have thought, purely based on the fact that no one understands such a unique relationship as it's something extremely personal. Though, here at the Forums...

Perhaps the thread could be titled...'Publically, who is the more religious Crown Princess/Queen?'

 

[Charlotte1]

But I'm curious about not-western Royals. I'm wondering which of them are very religious in the Muslim, Buddisth, Shintoist or Hinduist world. For exampleoes Prince Naruhito attends Shintoist religious ceremonies often?
Vanesa.

Shintoism isn't a religion as such that a person who practises it is considered devout or there even being a fundamentalist version of it. There's no regular weekly observance, it's more of a way of life.
I think it would be safe to say that Naruhito attends Shinto shrines and ceremonies at the appropriate times. Last year he was photographed at the cemetery honouring his grandparents at OBon which is the festival to venerate your ancestors. He would go to the Shinto shrine at New Years as all Japanese do to pray for a good year. After he got married he and Masako travelled to Ise Shrine ( The St Peter's Basillica of Shinto) to pray.

As Shinto is a way of life its very accomodating to other religious practises as well. A Japanese person once explained Japanese religious practises like this to me. Shinto deals with living a good life so babies are taken to the Shrine to be prayed for, if a traditional wedding ( rare now a days) is held then it's Shinto, funerals are Buddhist as Buddhism deals with having a good after life. Once a year all Japanese are Christians ( Christmas!)

Neither Masako nor Michiko are Christian and yet both attended catholic schools. Michiko even graduated from a catholic university. So it would be safe to say that both of them are very familiar with catholic rituals.

 

[Regina]

Neither Masako nor Michiko are Christian and yet both attended catholic schools. Michiko even graduated from a catholic university. So it would be safe to say that both of them are very familiar with catholic rituals.

Thanks for the interesting information, I didn't know this about Masako.

 

[carlota]

no regina, no... princess maxima is not a devout catholic (imo) because she allows to wait almost 6 months to christianize her daughters...
And as far as i know she traveled a lot with the prince when they were still boyfriends.

anyway i think Mary is a devout christian. she knew all the religious songs at her son's christening and that can't be learned in just one day...

i'm astonished by your views, aquarela. i find what you say rather ilogical:

you are saying that maxima is not a good catholic because she travelled a lot with willem-alexander before her marriage, but you say mary is a devout christian, even though she travelled during her engagement period as much as maxima (and even if they didn't travel, any of the two couples, we live in the 21st century, as i assume it's totally accetable for a couple to live together before marriage!). how can you judge on that?

you then say it's not acceptable for maxima to wait 6 months to baptise her daughters. may i remind you maxima's daughters are raised as protestants, just as their father, so it's up to the protestant faith and the royal protocol to decide when to baptise them. maxima probably has nothing to do with that.

what impressed me the most is the fact that you imply that you consider a person who has always been faithful to her views on religion "less devout" than a person who decided to change her religion some years ago, just because she knows how to sing songs at a christening.

 

[Madame Royale]

...than a person who decided to change her religion some years ago...

It was required of Mary, that upon marriage to the Crown Prince, that she henceforth relinquish her Presbyterian teachings and remain a practicing Evangelical Lutheran which, as we know, is the official state religion.

To imply that the change of her denomination was decided as if on a whim, and solely her choice, is not in any way accurate.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It was required of Mary, that upon marriage to the Crown Prince, that she henceforth relinquish her Presbyterian teachings and remain a practicing Evangelical Lutheran which, as we know, is the official state religion.

To imply that the change of her denomination was decided as if on a whim, and solely her choice, is not in any way accurate.

Same with Queen Sofia, being raised greek orthodox but having to convert to catholizism before marrying Juan Carlos.

 

[kaffir]

Sheikha is it Hind? The one who won't let herself be photographed for religious reasons.

 

[carlota]

It was required of Mary, that upon marriage to the Crown Prince, that she henceforth relinquish her Presbyterian teachings and remain a practicing Evangelical Lutheran which, as we know, is the official state religion.

To imply that the change of her denomination was decided as if on a whim, and solely her choice, is not in any way accurate.

i totally understand that, madame royal. changing her religion was something that was required and not something she chose, but i wouldn't say that implies at all some sort of devout-ness, in fact quite the opposite. it shows to me she is not that religious, but that's nothing blamable at all and her very own private decision. in fact, i see nothing wrong if she has to "accept" a religion for public purposes within the royal family just to keep a family tradition.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

i totally understand that, madame royal. changing her religion was something that was required and not something she chose, but i wouldn't say that implies at all some sort of devout-ness, in fact quite the opposite. it shows to me she is not that religious, but that's nothing blamable at all and her very own private decision. in fact, i see nothing wrong if she has to "accept" a religion for public purposes within the royal family just to keep a family tradition.

I think it's easier if a person can remain within the christian faith, eg a catholic marrying a protestant and having to convert. There are differences but not as much as changing to a completely different religion, eg a christian getting married to a muslim, jew etc. Does anyone know if this has happened in Royalty? Maybe Queen Noor?

 

[carlota]

I think it's easier if a person can remain within the christian faith, eg a catholic marrying a protestant and having to convert. There are differences but not as much as changing to a completely different religion, eg a christian getting married to a muslim, jew etc. Does anyone know if this has happened in Royalty? Maybe Queen Noor?

yes, queen noor changed religion. she was christian and decided to learn more about islam after marrying.

 

[Madame Royale]

i totally understand that, madame royal. changing her religion was something that was required and not something she chose, but i wouldn't say that implies at all some sort of devout-ness, in fact quite the opposite. it shows to me she is not that religious, but that's nothing blamable at all and her very own private decision. in fact, i see nothing wrong if she has to "accept" a religion for public purposes within the royal family just to keep a family tradition.

I appreciate your reply, Carlota.

I'm in no position to say who or who is not a devout christian or catholic. How can I, or anyone here, possibly know? I personally, wouldn't think so either but I cannot not know.

Though, the fact Mary became a Lutheran does little to inform me of her personal ideology. It does however exhibit a regard and understanding for what is required of her position, and of course, herself I'm sure.

 

[principessa]

IMO Crown Princess Mathilde is the most religious crown princess! I cannot explain why, but this is my gut feeling.

 

[Veram98]

yes, queen noor changed religion. she was christian and decided to learn more about islam after marrying.

Queen Noor changed religion at the morning of her wedding day. In her autobiography she reports that it was her very own decision (not her husband's who could marry a Christian like every Muslim man), that she was not raised by her parents in a specific religion (while being formally a Christian), that she started to learn more about Islam after she had decided to marry King Hussein and that Islam impressed and convinced her more than any other religion did before.

Princess Muna, King Hussein's second (British) wife (and mother of the actual king) also converted to Islam before marrying the king.

 

[Vanesa]

Well. I think that if you are a really Christian (not only a Catholic) you must not travel with your boy friend. Faith goes not with changing of fashion as other people seems to think. Nowadays, there is people who even doesn't know they must not do this or that..They does something for "fashions" changed and if yesterday something was a bad thing , today is a good one. Faith has nothing to do with fashion or social changing points of view. Is for that that I don't care about modern society..For it thinks that morals and Faith are also submited to "fashions". I even know about people who does things forbidden by Catholic faith and believes they are good and even devoted Catholics..."Oh, yes! -they said- I goes every Sunday to Church and gives money to poor people".

But besides all these arguments (that I'm certain, most of you will not share with me ) Princess Maxima COULD have been or not a good Catholic, but whatever she was regarding this Faith she isn't any more.. She must be from the same Protestant Church than her husband, since a day or another she will be Netherlands new Queen and she can't be a Catholic.

Vanesa.

 

[Henri M.]

No requirement for the King or Queen

Well. I think that if you are a really Christian (not only a Catholic) you must not travel with your boy friend. Faith goes not with changing of fashion as other people seems to think. Nowadays, there is people who even doesn't know they must not do this or that..They does something for "fashions" changed and if yesterday something was a bad thing , today is a good one. Faith has nothing to do with fashion or social changing points of view. Is for that that I don't care about modern society..For it thinks that morals and Faith are also submited to "fashions". I even know about people who does things forbidden by Catholic faith and believes they are good and even devoted Catholics..."Oh, yes! -they said- I goes every Sunday to Church and gives money to poor people".

But besides all these arguments (that I'm certain, most of you will not share with me ) Princess Maxima COULD have been or not a good Catholic, but whatever she was regarding this Faith she isn't any more.. She must be from the same Protestant Church than her husband, since a day or another she will be Netherlands new Queen and she can't be a Catholic.

Vanesa.

Dear Vanessa, four facts:

1.
In the Netherlands there is an absolute Freedom of Faith. This counts for all citizens and -of course- also for the King and the members of the royal family. The King (and the Queen, and all members) can have any Faith. Or no any Faith at all. So there is no any need for Princess Máxima to become a Protestant.

2.
When Miss Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti engaged with The Prince of Orange, she requested an official dispensation from the Roman-Catholic Church. The Bishop of Rotterdam (the diocese of her residence The Hague) has given an official dispensation. This means that the Church gas given its official permission for her intended marriage with a non-Catholic.

3.
Princess Máxima has stated she wanted to study Protestantism. She has discussed her Faith with the Court Chaplain. She has been to the Bible-class her husband regularly attends, so told the Court Chaplain on television. But in the end she remained loyal and faithful to the Church of Rome.

4.
The Queen and her three sons are very close to the Court Chaplain, the Reverend Ds. Carel ter Linden. Their three weddings and the funerals of Prince Claus and Prince Bernhard were 'done' by this Court Chaplain. Princess Máxima is still close to her family's priest, Padre Rafael Braun. During the wedding on 02-02-2002 the Princess invited Padre Braun to have a role in the wedding and to read from the Holy Gospel in Spanish. Also during this Protestant wedding the Princess requested the choir to sing the Kyrie of Mozart and a soprano to sing the Ave Maria (in Latin and in German). A clear Catholic statement in a Protestant service. I think she has stayed close to her Roman-Catholic roots and I admire that in her.

 

[Elspeth]

Just a quick note of caution here. The OP asked about the most religious Queen or Crown Princess, not the Queen or Crown Princess with the deepest or most genuine faith. The latter is something we can't possibly know, and this forum isn't the place for debates about who is or is not a True Christian and what it means to be a True Christian. That's the start of a slippery slope that often ends in threads turning into pitched battles, which would be a very good thing to avoid.

Please keep this thread on the topic of public religious observances, and stay well clear of discussions about private faith.

Thank you.

Elspeth

Royal Forums administrator

 

[TLLK]

I would have to agree Henri. As a fellow Roman Catholic, I am pleased to see that the Church officials in the Netherlands gave their approval for Maxima to marry Prince W-A. I was not aware of this fact.

She has chosen to remain a member of the Roman Catholic Church, but has shown an interest in learning about her husband's Protestant faith. I believe that this will help them to raise their children with a respect for other Christian denominations. There does appear to be a notable R.C. population in the Netherlands and their children should be aquainted with their beliefs and traditions as well. I believe this is especially important for the future Queen Catharina-Amalia, who should IMO follow her great-grandmother's example and learn something about Islam as well. All of this will help her to have a greater knowledge of her kingdom's population.