Royals & Nobles and Wealth, Costs and Finances

[branchg]

It's a fine line, to some extent. Even Balmoral and Sandringham are somewhat in trust for the Crown, although technically the Queen could sell them both, because the upkeep and security is paid for by the Civil List.

If the monarchy formally ended, the Queen would most likely surrender the stamp collection, her art and most of the family jewels. Her personal property would probably consist solely of her private money and whatever the value of Sandringham and Balmoral was assessed via an annuity. It would not be paid to her in a lump sum amount.

 

[branchg]

Stating that her private belongings are the Sovereign's legally implies they belong to the Crown (the Sovereign is the physical embodiment of the Crown). Usually it's said that they belong to her as a person (as Elizabeth Windsor) rather than to her as a Sovereign. That keeps the confusion over what belongs to her and what belongs to the Crown at a minimum (though republicans twist it anyways).

Most of the items do not belong to her as Elizabeth Mountbatten-Windsor. She has a lifetime tenancy and use through the Crown Trust as the Sovereign and then they pass to the next Sovereign after her death. It's just they don't belong to the Exchequer via the Crown Estate.

When Edward VIII abdicated, he did not receive a lump sum amount for Balmoral and Sandringham. He received an annuity instead as it was determined by the King's advisors and the Exchequer that both properties are inalienable from the Crown.

 

[kelly9480]

That is simply incorrect. There is no such thing as "The Crown Trust". EIIR refuses to create one, even in the face of criticism about the tax deal that the lack of a trust makes necessary.

Sandringham and Balmoral are EIIR's private properties. She can bequeath Sandringham to whomever she pleases, though if she bequeaths it to anyone other than the next monarch, estate taxes must be paid. Balmoral must be bequeathed to successors under the terms of Victoria's will, which may or may not hold up in a modern court (George V bequeathed it directly to Edward VIII, not to "whoever inherits the throne" i.e. Bertie, Lilibet, etc.). If Balmoral were to automatically go to the successor to the throne, George VI wouldn't have had to essentially buy it from his brother, who initially refused to hand it over.

"Balmoral Castle on the Balmoral Estate in Aberdeenshire, Scotland is the private residence of The Queen."

"Sandringham House in Norfolk has been the private home of four generations of Sovereigns since 1862. ... Like Balmoral, the Sandringham Estate is a commercial estate managed privately on The Queen's behalf."

"Sandringham is the much-loved country retreat of Her Majesty the Queen, and has been the private home of four generations of British monarchs."

Edward VIII didn't receive a lump sum for the estates because George VI didn't have that kind of money. EIIR kept paying for the estates until 5 years into her reign, and she actually cut in half the amount paid for them, but they were paid out of her private income. The Chancellor didn't have anything to do with the deal -- George VI had to come up with the funds out of his income from the Duchy of Lancaster and his private money.

 

[kelly9480]

It's a fine line, to some extent. Even Balmoral and Sandringham are somewhat in trust for the Crown, although technically the Queen could sell them both, because the upkeep and security is paid for by the Civil List.

If the monarchy formally ended, the Queen would most likely surrender the stamp collection, her art and most of the family jewels. Her personal property would probably consist solely of her private money and whatever the value of Sandringham and Balmoral was assessed via an annuity. It would not be paid to her in a lump sum amount.

"The annual running and upkeep of the Estate currently costs The Queen personally a considerable sum even after off setting income from forestry, farming, venison sales and tourism enterprises. "

Security isn't included in the Civil List because the amount cannot be released to the public. Even EIIR doesn't know how much security costs.

EIIR wouldn't surrender the stamp collection because it's hers. "Although a personal asset, the collection has always been regarded as an heirloom, but The Queen does make loans of material from the collection for display at exhibitions."

Her art is worth less than 20 million pounds and wouldn't be surrended. Neither would her private jewellery collection.

 

[mknyazev]

I wonder if someone of them gives grants for writing books on royal history

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I read some where that Denmark is the richest. I think it was in life magazine.

No, they are not.

According to Forbes magazine (2004), the richest royal in Europe is Hans Adam, followed by Queen Elizabeth, and finally Queen Beatrix. The Danish royals did not make the list, but that does not mean they are not wealthy; they are simply not up to par, according Forbes magazine, as being wealthy enough to make the list.

Another poster posted the link to this information on page one.

 

[magnik]

I've heard that Prince Albert von Thurnd und Taxis is one of the youngest (if not THE youngest) billionaires in the world.

Yes, it was in Forbes 2005 - he has $ 2 billions and was on 321 place.
Link about Albert,
http://www.forbes.com/static/bill2005/LIR0PW3.html?passListId=10&passYear=2005&passListType=Person&uniqueId=0PW3&datatype=Person

Billionaires other lists,
http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0328/125.html?bill05

 

[Australian]

I heard somewhere about the Leichtenstein family were the richestm or one of the richest.

 

[magnik]

I heard somewhere about the Leichtenstein family were the richestm or one of the richest.

From Forbes 2005
1) Hans-Adam von und zu Liechtenstein II & family
Prince, Liechtenstein
$3.2 billion
This prince has the unique distinction of having a country named after his family. Last August he abdicated in favor of his son, Crown Prince Alois. The family's riches include an estimated 20,000 hectares of land in Austria, numerous houses and palaces in Vienna, a producer of genetically engineered rice in the U.S., the private LGT Bank, and a priceless art collection housed in the baroque Garden Palace in Vienna, featuring works by Frans Hals, Van Dyck, Lucas Cranach the Elder, Raphael and Mantegna.

2) HM Queen Elizabeth II - $720 million
3) HM Queen Beatrix - $260 million

From worldroots 2004 not all European monarchs
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs34/richestroyals2004.jpg

 

[Warren]

From worldroots 2004 not all European monarchs
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs34/richestroyals2004.jpg

This is what this list states. Make of it what you will, it's all guesswork. No-one knows for sure.

Grand Duke Henri - 5 billion Euro
Queen Elizabeth - 4 billion
Queen Beatrix - 400 million
King Harald - 150 million
King Carl Gustav - 25 million
King Albert - 20 million
Queen Margrethe - 15 million
King Juan Carlos - 10 million

 

[Karisma]

Private property

It´s true that no-one knows for sure. I suppose, for some reason, it´s foundations and private companies behind many Royal familys. And they have every reason to be protected about their private property. The Royal familys are not a form of colony in which everything is the property of the community.

 

[regardez]

How are the Oranges so wealthy? I mean, they are a small house aren't they? I love them, I'm just wondering.

 

[Marengo]

Well, a few years ago they still had 2 billion according to Forbes. But Prince Bernhard made a phonecall to the magazine and they dropped on the list. The RF always fiercely denied having this wealth, and even say that this estimate of 400m is to high. As i WW2 the countess of Athlone was still bragging about the wealth of her dutch cousin (she vindictively added that despite of this wealth her cousin still couldn't find a dress that fitted her, when she arrived in London), I assume the capital didn't deminish within 50 years so...

A book I borrowed 'Het Oranjekapitaal' (the Orange-fortune) by journalist Philip Droge claims that most of the wealth came from stocks in Royal Dutch/Shell and stocks in ABN-AMRO (King Willem I founded the predecessor of that bank).

 

[Melania]

This is what this list states. Make of it what you will, it's all guesswork. No-one knows for sure.

Grand Duke Henri - 5 billion Euro
Queen Elizabeth - 4 billion
Queen Beatrix - 400 million
King Harald - 150 million
King Carl Gustav - 25 million
King Albert - 20 million
Queen Margrethe - 15 million
King Juan Carlos - 10 million

How can the Danish family be worth so little? Queen Margrethe 15 million! I suppose if you live off of pensions, that's what happens after several decades.

 

[Warren]

How can the Danish family be worth so little? Queen Margrethe 15 million! I suppose if you live off of pensions, that's what happens after several decades.

Alternatively, how can the Luxembourgers be worth so much? I've seen it attributed to "land", but that doesn't explain much. Richer than EIIR? Quite possibly, but how?

 

[Melania]

Do you believe that the Danish family is worth so little? I find it hard to believe. I run into people at the super market worth more than that.

 

[Marengo]

Well, traditionally this branch of the danish family hasn't been very rich, King Christian and Queen Louise didn't have enough money to attend the wedding of their daughter Dagmar in St.Petersburg ins tyle, for example. And if they always divided the inheritance equaly between children the fortune should be fragmented. But I agree, even when you consider these factors, it still isn't that much of a fortune, for a RF.

 

[norwegianne]

The Norwegian sum is fairly fictional. It's hard to know how much exactly they have as they're keeping it hidden. The Palace confirmed in '99 that King Harald inherited an amount over 9 milion NOK and under 100 milion NOK from his father in '91. (http://www.norwatch.no/index.php?artikkelid=993&back=1) This fits in with Princess Astrid's fortune being around 75 milion NOK, according to Norwegian tax records, as King Olav's assets were shared equally between his three children.

In '99 King Harald's fortune consisted of various stocks in funds and things like that. It's placed out of the country and placed for long planning ahead, and doesn't get much bigger year by year. How much presisely, is not known. It is generally an emergency fund, or a war fund, and is not touched. This is all according to the above article from Norwatch.

There is also some confusion as to what happened to the presumed "dowry" of Queen Maud, after the war, according to the article.

I suspect the only ones who truly have a control over the financial situation are King Harald and his accountants

 

[Warren]

I remember some years ago Point de Vue estimated the Norwegian RF asset value as surprisingly large. The magazine stated that, among other things, there are substantial landholdings in Scotland.

I have seen another very large estimate of the Nassau family fortune (also more than that of Queen Elizabeth as in the estimates in the post below), but have yet to find any reasonable explanation. Is no one else surprised at this figure in comparison to the other Royal Houses?

The Belgian RF finances appear to be very murky, and I doubt anyone (again, apart from the King and his financial advisers) has any idea of the true figure, or even a rough estimate. I know a lot of the huge wealth acquired by Leopold II was handed over to the government, but it is hard to imagine that the dynasty didn't retain substantial assets.

 

[Marengo]

Well, Princess Lilian even had to sell of some tiara's, so I imagine something went wrong there. After the death of the princess de Rethy they sold chateau Argenteuill as well, which was in a VERY neglected state. Also, many antiques, paintings etc with royal provenance were auctioned of. If the Belgian RF would be very wealthy I can not imagine things like this happening. As you said Leopold II left almost nothing to his nephew Albert I.

I believe Duke Adolf of Nassau was already described as being an extremely wealthy man (I do not know where I read it, possibly in the book of Marie of Roumania), so maybe they still have a lot of possesions in Germany?

 

[Little_star]

The Moroccan Royal Family's wealth is estimated as $4-5billion by Forbes Magazine. However some estimates put it as high as $20billion.

(From the Daily Telegraph Newspaper).

 

[Little_star]

Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud is worth an estimated $17.7billion according to Forbes
LINK

King Fahd was worth an estimated $20billion

The Sultan of Brunei is worth at least $11billion

(All figures from Forbes)

 

[Melania]

King Mohammed VI has around 20-25 palaces in Morocco alone. He has a palace in every major city there. There is a boulevard that has 5 or 6 palaces along the road for the princes and some of the family. When the King goes to a city, he never stays in a hotel, he stays in one of his palaces. He also has a house in France and property in England.

The royal palace's budget is $250 million a year, which is 18 times more than QEII.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/23/wmoroc23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/23/ixworld.html

Also, the Saudi royal family has around 15 palaces in Morocco. They go there to get away from the strict rules in Saudi Arabia.

 

[HRH Kerry]

Will we ever truly know how rich these royals are? I don't think I would ever divulge my true net worth and I'm average middle class. This is really a guessing game with no end.

 

[amina1]

Very intersting indeed, any info/guessing about Jordan royals?
Thanks.

 

[Monalisa]

King Mohammed VI has around 20-25 palaces in Morocco alone. He has a palace in every major city there. There is a boulevard that has 5 or 6 palaces along the road for the princes and some of the family. When the King goes to a city, he never stays in a hotel, he stays in one of his palaces. He also has a house in France and property in England.

The royal palace's budget is $250 million a year, which is 18 times more than QEII.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/23/wmoroc23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/23/ixworld.html

Also, the Saudi royal family has around 15 palaces in Morocco. They go there to get away from the strict rules in Saudi Arabia.

It's not KMVI who has 20-25 palaces,but all members of the MRF,King Mohammed VI has for his own only two palaces,and the other royal palaces belong to all the members of the moroccan royal family,not only KM6.

And the 250M$,is the coast of all the moroccan monarchy,not only the coast of palaces,it includes coasts of palaces,civil lists,salaries,royal foundations....

PS: The original article about coast of moroccan monarchy was written by a moroccan journalist from the moroccan magazine "TelQuel" as KM6 said that it is not a secret and verybody can know about it from the annual state's budget,and this was reproduced by all magazines and papers...

 

[Monalisa]

Very intersting indeed, any info/guessing about Jordan royals?
Thanks.

I think nothing would be provided really about that,as the jordanian royals hide very well their wealth... it's a secret,as the freedom of speech and medias in Jordan daosn't allow such as talks about the royal family.

 

[Warren]

I think nothing would be provided really about that,as the jordanian royals hide very well their wealth... it's a secret...

As it is for every other Royal family. As Kerry has pointed out in her post below very few people, from any walk of life, divulge their net worth for public consumption.

 

[Melania]

It's not KMVI who has 20-25 palaces,but all members of the MRF,King Mohammed VI has for his own only two palaces,and the other royal palaces belong to all the members of the moroccan royal family,not only KM6.

And the 250M$,is the coast of all the moroccan monarchy,not only the coast of palaces,it includes coasts of palaces,civil lists,salaries,royal foundations....

PS: The original article about coast of moroccan monarchy was written by a moroccan journalist from the moroccan magazine "TelQuel" as KM6 said that it is not a secret and verybody can know about it from the annual state's budget,and this was reproduced by all magazines and papers...

The King has palaces in every major city that are his. His family's palaces are in the city of Rabat, and just between Rabat and Skhirat (a small tourist town on the coast which is 30 miles south of the capital) the royal family has 8 palaces. Total there are 30-35 palaces, some of which are considered their "villas."

I never said that I didn't get the information from a printed article. My husband reads TelQuel, he just couldn't remember the magazine # with this information.

I can only imagine how rich the Saudis are, they probably don't want to publish their real worth because they don't want to piss off their citizens any more.

 

[amina1]

Yes you're right Melania, I've heard the same thing from my moroccan friend, and besides MRF gets lots of (aid)money from ME rich states, and France is one of the major contributers to Morroco, they have good realtions together.