LHBTQ+ Royalty

[Warren]

Originally Posted by MAfan

I also have read somewhere, but I can't remember the source...

That's inconvenient, as the mention of the Duke of Edinburgh in this context is highly dubious. Sounds more like a Kitty Kelly "exposé".

[MAfan]

YEs, I also have several doubts...

[bbb]

i don't believe it, the Duke of Edinburgh has always seemed "a mans man" to me, and all the rumors of his....ummm appreciation of women seem to discount any suggestion of this JMO it laughable

[Odette]

Originally Posted by MAfan

I also have read somewhere, but I can't remember the source, something about a relationship between Louis Ferdinand and the Duke of Kent, and also a lot of stories of relationships between gay princes...I remember it also mentioned the Duke of Edinburgh, King Pavlos of Greece, the Earl Mountbatten of Burma, the Duke of Windsor, Prince Andreas of Greece and Denmark, Landgrave Philipp of Hesse, Grand Dukes Georg and Ludwig of Hesse, and others that I don't remember...

I have read in another post (above) suggestions about King Pavlos of Greece. I must admit this is the only thread ever when this suggestion has ever been discussed as far as I know. However I am very happy that the Duke of Endinburgh is included in the same list. If half the stories ever told about him (The Duke) are true the man has been too busy with the ladies to be interested in men.

[fearghas]

Segei Romanoff may in fact have been asexual, that is no sexual interest in anyone.I'd never heard about Louis Ferdinand of Prussia before, though the Duke of Kent is known as Bisexual. I'd still like to know the sources of this so if anyone can tell me. I'd like more than just 'I read somewhere' mainly because that 'somewhere' could have been any sort of publication.

[MAfan]

Yes, I'm sorry...it was some time ago, maybe in internet...I can't remember it, sorry...

[Warren]

If there's one thing we have learnt it's that using "the internet" as a source is fraught with peril and should be avoided, especially when it comes to alleged sexual activity.

[Boris]

Deatails about the Duke of Kent's relationships with men can be found in every serious biography of his parents or about the Windsors. I recommend Donald Spoto's "Dynasty" for a convenient overview.
Among others, Prince George had an affair with Noel Coward around 1923, and much later a relationship with the son of the Argentine ambassador to Great Britain, Jorge Evaristo Uriburu, with whom he had to break up due to pressure from the Royal Family who regarded the relationship as potentially politically embarrrassing.
I have never heard anything about The Duke of Edinburgh having any homosexual tendencies. His uncle Lord Mountbatten of Burma though is known to have been bisexual, or most likely exclusively gay in later years.

[MAfan]

I repeat: I am the first to have doubts about these informations; I only have referred what I read some time ago.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by fearghas

Segei Romanoff may in fact have been asexual, that is no sexual interest in anyone.

I wonder about that myself. Not saliciously, mind you, just to try and undderstand the man more and his place in history. There is no doubt that he loved Ella and she him (Christopher Warwick's book, also archives of Ella's letters to QV) but I wonder if it was more an adoration love. There is a scene before Sergei and Ella marry where he covers her with jewels from head to foot. She claims she looks like a Christmas tree, he seems satisfied with his work. (I'm sure she looked stunning. I would have loved to see that site!)
There are other references that Sergei wanted Ella to look a certain way, to dress thusly as he enjoyed looking at her when she was all turned out.
Something to ponder.

[fearghas]

Mafan, please don't think I'm having a go at you, I just had never heard about Luois Ferdinand before. I'm particularly interested in the gay/bisexual royalty of Europe and how they lived their lives trying to keep up appearances and so thought I had known all the main ones.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by MAfan

I repeat: I am the first to have doubts about these informations...

This is not directed at you MAfan but to all contributors to this discussion. Due to the nature of this thread it would be best if we could limit ourselves to verifiable sources, the aim being to identify gay/bisexual/lesbian royal figures with some degree of historical accuracy. Rumours abound, especially when it comes to the internet, and many of these rumours and allegations are rubbish, wishful thinking or purely malicious.

For our purposes, published works (excluding Kitty Kelly!) are generally acceptable sources, at least for the lesser-known royal figures, and can form the basis for an interesting discussion as opposed to the generic "I've heard..." followed by a string of names.

Thanks once again for everyone's cooperation in keeping this thread as historically accurate as possible.

Warren
TRF Administrator

[randyI]

gay royal head of state is not possible. they are defenders of the faith. the church will not condone it. one thing is to be politically tolerant and support many gay issues, but to be a gay king or queen? dont think so.

Originally Posted by Smilla

I'm not convinced that this would be THE big problem. Just imagine that Princess Victoria turns out to be infertile or just doesn't get married. Her brother and sister's children would be next in line to the throne, and the problem would be solved neatly. The same could be done in the case of a gay king.

on the other hand. this is so true

[maria-olivia]

Thanks Warren ,
"I am not sure , but I read of I have heard about Prince X has a relationship with Prince Z ", is totaly unfair against Princes who died.
I like to say again that Members of RF may have relatives who are and do not appreciate some details written is this Forum.
Warren I appreciate your message.

[Camilo2002]

It is a well known and accepted fact that George Duke of Kent (Marina's husband) was bisexual, however George and Marina had a happy marriage and were the center of London's social life.

Prince Waldemar of Denmark and his Greek nephew prince George (married to Marie Bonaparte) relationship was also recognized by every serious source in history.

Ernst Grand Duke of Hesse (Victoria Melita's husband) was also bisexual as stated by his wife who found him in bed with a servant. Ernst used to be a low profile bisexual and he chose lovers amongst his servants.

King Gustav V of Sweden was also bisexual; he married with Victoria of Baden and had 3 sons but, he had a long lasting affair with Kurt Haijby, a man who blackmailed him for a long time.

King Umberto II of Italy had many affairs with a number of men including actors and a box champion.

King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria was gay, once he was overthrown he spent the rest of his life in Capri and other many places with handsome men; marriage for him was a state obligation to provide heirs for his dinasty.

King consort Francis of Borbon (husband of Spanish Queen Isabella II) was totally gay (he was known in the Spanish court as "Paquita"); it is an accepted fact that Isabella's children were from other men as she had many lovers along her life in Madrid and Paris. Actually, King Juan Carlos' great great grandfather was not Francis of Borbon but Captain Enrique Puig-Molto; that is something we all know.

Prince Albert Duke of Clarence (elder son of King Edward VII) was also gay and it was a well known fact that he used to attend homosexual brothels in London and Paris.

King Louis XIII was also bisexual; his relationship with Heri de Ruze Marquis of Saint Marcs is widely accepted by all historians. Louis XIII's second son, Philippe I, Duke of Orleans (brother of Louis XIV) was gay too; however, he married twice and had children by both wives.

Henry III King of France and Edward II King of England were gay beyond any doubt; they both married and Edward had 4 children.

Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich Romanov was bisexual; he had well known affairs with Prince Felix Yusupov of Russia and other men. Dmitri married Audrey Emery, an American heiress and had a son.

Archduke Ludwig Viktor of Austria (brother of Emperor Franz Joseph I) was entirely gay, to the extent he could not stand intercourse with women. His brother, the emperor, asked him to live in exile as his homosexuality and transvestitism was widely known.

Richard I of England (Lionheart) and Philip II of France had a passionate affair as acknowledged by most historians.

Homosexuality does not affect judgment and we will find many valuable men and women that were homosexual and great monarchs/politicians. Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great of Macedon show that a men can be bisexual and still strong, smart and courageous. I am not sure about the difference between gay and bisexual. Most gay men can also have intercourse with woman, doest this fact make them bisexual?

An openly gay monarch would have a difficult path even in Scandinavian Countries; the royals private life is under tremendous scrutiny and the media and anti monarchy activists would take advantage of such a situation.

Unfortunately sexual preference is still an issue nowadays. I find very interesting to know about the life of men and women who defied the establishment and lived their life the way they wanted.

[wbenson]

Originally Posted by randyI

gay royal head of state is not possible. they are defenders of the faith. the church will not condone it.

Not all monarchs have to deal with an established church. And in most cases, there's nothing they could do about it other than tut in disapproval.

[firelight]

Originally Posted by Camilo2002

I am not sure about the difference between gay and bisexual. Most gay men can also have intercourse with woman, doest this fact make them bisexual?

Let me see if I can get this straight:

A bisexual man is one who is sexually attracted to both men and women. A gay (homosexual) man is attracted only to men. A straight (heterosexual) man is attracted only to women. That's the simple categorisation (I think).

Of course the real picture is often more confusing than that. A man may find himself being attracted / not attracted to members of the same / opposite sex at different points in life / different circumstances in life. This is particularly prominent during adolescence, when many people are first discovering their sexuality and may experiment with both hetero- and homo- sex, sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of genuine desire, often a mixture of both. Societal pressures and cultural norms also play a role in either allowing or suppresing expressions of homosexuality. There are many people out there who have convinced themselves that they're straight even if they are not. Many will even get married (to a member of the opposite sex), have children etc in an attempt to be 'normal'.

So, yes, a gay (non-bisexual) man can have sex with a woman (in much the same way, a straight woman can also have sex with another woman) - it's simply that the desire to do so is usually not present. The feeling of sexual attraction is simply not there.

The simplest and most complete term I've encountered for referring to people who have non-mainstream (ie, non-heterosexual) sexual / gender orientation is LGBT - lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.

And yes, there's a difference between sexual orientation and gender orientation.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Camilo2002

Prince Albert Duke of Clarence (elder son of King Edward VII) was also gay and it was a well known fact that he used to attend homosexual brothels in London and Paris..

Maybe, but not proven.
From 'Matriarch' by Anne Edwards, 1984.

p21: "No proof was ever presented that Prince Eddy had been...at the brothel. However, nor was there any official denial to allay public suspicions that the police had concealed evidence (an accusation broadly hinted at in the press)."
p24: "To his parents' displeasure and the Queen's disapproval, he was reported to be constantly in and out of love with a series of unsuitable ladies."
p26: "After Prince Eddy's rejection by Princess Alix, he appeared to fall legitimately in love with the beautiful Princess Hélène of Orléans... For over a year Prince Eddy and Princess Hélène gave every evidence of a young couple very much in love..."
"Documentary evidence exists in the form of letters that he was...wooing another beautiful woman, Lady Sybil St Clair-Erskine."

[Boris]

Regarding Prince Eddy, accounts really do differ. Maybe Anne Edwards is not the most reliable source here... I found both her biographies of Vivien Leigh and Princess Diana well-written but not necessarily accurate.

From Donald Spoto, 'Dynasty':
p. 75: "He (Prince Eddy) spent two fruitless years at college where the only impression he made seems to have been on a cadre of handsome young men who attached themselves romantically to him. Thus with an ironic twist of fate, his father found himself repeating HIS father's journey and with the same purpose: just as Albert had swept down to reprimand Bertie at Cambridge, so now Bertie moved in fury and snatched Eddy from school."
p. 75: "He (Eddy) was at least once involved in a raid on a notorious homosexual brothel in Cleveland Street."

And from Dennis Friedman, 'Inheritance':
p. 61: "The places he (Eddy) was rumored to frequent, especially the Hundred Guineas in Cleveland Street, the most notorious homosexual club in London and a male brothel which became closely associated with the Whitechapel murders of Jack the Ripper, (were) of such dubious repute that doubts about the company he kept, and also his sexual orientation, became a matter of not only public concern."

[Warren]

I've just gone through a few biographies on Queen Victoria, Edward VII, King George V and Queen Mary and it is interesting in the way the authors deal with what is often referred to as Prince Eddy's "lassitude". There is a lot of beating around the bush and references to what was "common knowledge" in certain London social circles without actually stating what that knowledge was. Only Anne Edwards broaches the subject directly.

The adjectives used to describe Prince Eddy are rather uncomplimentary: "backward, utterly listless, lethargic, languid, self-indulgent, under-educated, heedless, aimless, interested in nothing, flaccid". Despite this, James Pope-Hennessy's official biography of Queen Mary (1959), unsurprisingly perhaps, makes no mention of Eddy's sexual life. I think the examination of this side of Prince Eddy has only been detailed in more "modern" biographies where subjects once considered taboo are discussed candidly.