LHBTQ+ Royalty

[Smilla]

I once read that Queen Mary II (as in the Mary of William and Mary) was actually in love with another woman when she was forced to marry Prince William of Orange and that she maintained a relationship with that woman for the rest of her life.

Apparently King James was also gay - a fact which was publically known to the extent that somebody came up with the quip:
Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus.
(Elizabeth was King; now James is Queen.)

It's wonderful to know that people lived their lives as they wished before stuffy Victorian moral codes shaped the way we look at history.

 

[acid_rain3075]

Apparently King James was also gay - a fact which was publically known to the extent that somebody came up with the quip:
Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus.
(Elizabeth was King; now James is Queen.)

It's wonderful to know that people lived their lives as they wished before stuffy Victorian moral codes shaped the way we look at history.

I'm sorry but that is so cool! I never knew that King James was gay!

 

[Idriel]

One more wonderful tread we have to thank Beatrix for...

I think the Queen is more progressive than people give her credit for.

I sure agree with you. I do not think she would be very upset by a gay grandson but she would be worried for the Monarchy IMO.
Beatrix said in another thread that young people were not as accepting as people think they are and it's quite true. As a 20 something, I will say that I'm always surprised by the relatively high degree of homophobia in my groupe age comparing to 30 something people I know who are more open-minded. Still I'm talking for France, I did not have discussion about that with my English friends yet.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

The English are very very backward when it comes to homosexuality. There are still people who describe one as being 'not of the marrying kind' and it's all very hush hush. There are the clubs and the communities and I think that until recently, Lord Frederik Windsor (son of Prince and Princess Michael) was on the board of G-A-Y. It's very much kept behind closed doors here and we still haven't got used to heterosexual couples kissing in the street, let along homosexual ones.

There's that wonderful saying, "The Duke of Kent is exceedingly bent" - it's origin coming from Prince George of course. He was having a passionate affair since his youth and all through his marriage with Sir Noel Coward. One night, a policeman saw two elderly women struggling along the street, bent over and laughing - obviously roaring drunk. He arrested them and took them to the police station. Suddenly, one of them took off her wig and revealed that she was in fact the son of King George V and Queen Mary. When the Prince died, Coward was beside himself and Marina actually asked him to the memorial service personally. She knew what was going on but she bore it all with good grace.

I think that the upper classes especially are rather stuffy and old-fashioned and of course, in the forces it would be a huge problem. All those butch men laughing in their messes at the gay Monarch. Of Course, they're the biggest hypocrits of them all with 'forced buggery' still being a huge problem. (And can I say to anyone who is offended at that, it's still the way they class male rape in the armed forces). Can you imagine the fun they'd have in the barracks if a gay Prince was bunking with them?

 

[Smilla]

As a 20 something, I will say that I'm always surprised by the relatively high degree of homophobia in my groupe age comparing to 30 something people I know who are more open-minded.

I believe the attitude towards homosexuality shifts a bit with age. From my experience as a teacher I can say that especially for young male teenagers homosexuality is the big no-no issue. If you really want to demolish somebody's reputation you call them "gay". Well, it's not as if they could say what was so bad about it, it's just some handed-down prejudice.
But when they get older, young men become more tolerant. Maybe they feel less threatened by then, I don't know. It's all very sad.

 

[susan alicia]

The husband of Marina was gay? Wonder if she knew before they married and whether she had lovers, it must have been a bit sad for her.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

The husband of Marina was gay? Wonder if she knew before they married and whether she had lovers, it must have been a bit sad for her.

Apparantly she was made aware of George's sexuality by being told he was 'a bit flighty'. I think she just learned to live with it but she didn't have other lovers or partners. She threw herself into motherhood and when George was killed, she went into deep mourning and blamed herself for his 'condition'. Alexandra, Edward and Michael went to live with Queen Mary whilst Marina went through a deep depression.

 

[Elspeth]

According to a biography of Princess Marina, she had a long-term lover during her widowhood, but nothing was said about marital infidelity on her part. Mind you, she was only married for eight years and had three children in that time, so she didn't have a lot of time for dalliances.

I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing. Apparently when she did her history lessons, the friendship between Queen Anne and Duchess of Marlborough was presented in a very platonic light! I wonder if she was told about "Mrs Freeman" and "Mrs Morley."

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing.

LOL! I love that. Maybe that explains the Royal Family's attitudes now. According to Brian Hoey, "The Royal Family are at great ease with their male homosexual staff but are not as accomodating to women of a similar persuasion".

 

[Idriel]

4th attempt! My computer is bogus today

I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing. Apparently when she did her history lessons, the friendship between Queen Anne and Duchess of Marlborough was presented in a very platonic light! I wonder if she was told about "Mrs Freeman" and "Mrs Morley."

This remark turned out to be a blessing for lesbians. Their existance beeing totally ignored and their status not legally defined, they did enjoyed more liberty than their male counterparts who were hunted down like witches (see the Oscar Wilde trial).

I think that the upper classes especially are rather stuffy and old-fashioned and of course, in the forces it would be a huge problem. All those butch men laughing in their messes at the gay Monarch. Of Course, they're the biggest hypocrits of them all with 'forced buggery' still being a huge problem.

I remember reading few articles about rapes in posh boy boarding schools (Eton included), but I wonder if it is still a huge issue as you say. I mean, compared to the 60's or 70's when it was nearly some initiatic stuff, a sort of fresher week 'joke' )

About Kent. I believe homosexuality was the least of his "issues" (not that I suggest homosexuality is an issue, I have my gayfriendly member-card ). He was also a drunk and a drug-addict, or am I mistaken.

 

[ysbel]

About Kent. I believe homosexuality was the least of his "issues" (not that I suggest homosexuality is an issue, I have my gayfriendly member-card ). He was also a drunk and a drug-addict, or am I mistaken.

Yes Idriel, he had a severe cocaine problem at one point which makes me wonder why on earth Parliament would have ever considered passing over the Dukes of York and Gloucester to give him the crown of England. Luckily they rethought themselves and with the passing of the Duke at such a young age leaving young children it was definitely all for the best.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

I remember reading few articles about rapes in posh boy boarding schools (Eton included), but I wonder if it is still a huge issue as you say

Well, I have it on good authority that it still goes on in public boarding schools but only between students and not teachers/students. Not that that makes it right, but you're correct in saying that it's seen as some strange initiation ceremony.

I have a cousin the army (currently in Iraq) who has said that it isn't unususal for someone to be raped in the barracks and it's generally written off as 'very hot, lack of contact with the opposite sex and a lack of sleep' - I wonder if any of the young Princes who attended naval school etc were subjected to the 'ritual'.

 

[tiaraprin]

It is an unmitigated shame that homosexuals and lesbians are still treated unfairly today. I don't see why everyone gets so upset. They are just like heterosexuals except for one difference.

One of my best friends is gay and when he told his grandfather, OH MY GOD!! The grandfather went crazy and told him he would go hell (the whole Bible thing run amok).

Personally, I think many gays and lesbians are born with this sexual orientation. Most know at a preschool age in some shape or form that they like the same sex not the opposite. I am hoping that someday there will be scientific evidence to prove this and I know it is being worked on.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

The Bible thing. A huge problem for those in religious families which makes me feel that if William was gay then the more devout members of his family really wouldn't like it all.

I'm a gay Catholic and it's maybe a conflict of lifestyles - I can't help but feel that this would be similar for a gay Monarch.

 

[windsor the troll]

It is an unmitigated shame that homosexuals and lesbians are still treated unfairly today. I don't see why everyone gets so upset. They are just like heterosexuals except for one difference.

One of my best friends is gay and when he told his grandfather, OH MY GOD!! The grandfather went crazy and told him he would go hell (the whole Bible thing run amok).

Personally, I think many gays and lesbians are born with this sexual orientation. Most know at a preschool age in some shape or form that they like the same sex not the opposite. I am hoping that someday there will be scientific evidence to prove this and I know it is being worked on.

I watched a documentary about gay sheep (it wasn't solely about gay sheep ) and aparently gay sheep's brains are smaller than normal sheep brains (this sounds completely homophobic). They concluded that homosexuality was not a choice but cause by a slight brain deformity.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

They concluded that homosexuality was not a choice but cause by a slight brain deformity.

Quite true. Thats why I've never been able to wear hats.

 

[windsor the troll]

I wasn't meaning to sound rude there.

Sorry if it sounded offensive.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

Not at all! I was being sarcastic Serves me right for trying to be clever m'dear

 

[Idriel]

Quite true. Thats why I've never been able to wear hats.

Killing! You should maybe consider borrowing some hats from the Duchess. From what I can see hers are hugely roomy and can adapt to the oddest head-shape.
BTW, I don't know where this thread is going but I have a hell lot of fun.

Princesslinda, beware of those pseudo discoveries made on animals which are blunty adapted to human behavior. And I have yet to see a gay sheep.

Trying to get back a bit on subject, according to this website:

King Edward II loved Piers Gaveston
James I loved Esme Stuart, Duke of Lennox and George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham, and many others

Queen Anne loved Sarah Jennings

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

You should maybe consider borrowing some hats from the Duchess. From what I can see hers are hugely roomy and can adapt to the oddest head-shape.

Definately. I think Queen Beatrix could lend me a hat or two. Wasn't Alfred the Great supposed to have been gay?

Francis Osbourne said re: James I

“The love the King showed men was amorously conveyed as if he had mistaken their sex and thought them ladies, which I have seen Somerset and Buckingham labour to resemble in the effeminateness of their dressings; though in whorish looks and wanton gestures they exceeded any part of womankind my conversation did ever cope withal. Nor was his love, or whatever posterity will please to call it… carried on with a discretion sufficient to cover a less scandalous behaviour; for the king’s kissing them after so lascivious a mode in public, and upon the theatre, as it were, of the world, prompted many to imagine some things done in the tiring house that exceed my expressions no less than they do my experience, and therefore left them upon the waves of conjecture, which hath in my hearing tossed them from one side to another.”

Kissing men at the theatre? James the First was a luvvie - who knew?

 

[Margrethe II]

They concluded that homosexuality was not a choice but cause by a slight brain deformity

Not so much a deformity as it is a chemical imbalance of the brain, or so they say. Who knows...They have even done research on gay flies!! Um yeah....ok.

Did I hear hats? Well, we are about to have the Melbourne Cup (biggest Horse racing event in the southern hemisphere) on Tuesday and now they have all the deisgner hats and fascinators out and all I can do is walk past and just look, knowing that I would give anything to just wear them once!!! And the clothes....dont even get me started.

WOW, quite a lot of Hows ya Father royals are'nt there?

People (in general) must remember that homosexuality was apparent in society even before christ. The Romans would use the spa's to get "aquainted" with members of the same sex very often, having left their wife and countless numbers children at home.

"MII"

"B", I could'nt help but notice your avatar is of our one and only Dame Edna from Moonee Ponds.lol. Love it!!!

 

[Bellefleur]

A homosexual King or Queen!?!

A homosexual King or Queen = BIG PROBLEMS!

 

[Margrethe II]

A homosexual King or Queen = BIG PROBLEMS!

Care to elaborate?

"MII"

 

[Smilla]

gay sheep.

That gay sheep is hilarious! The only thing that's missing is a hat.

James I actually was quite open about his love for men. I'll try to dig up one or two quotations.

I'm sure that's common knowledge, but homosexuality was quite an accepted way of life in Ancient Greece, even before the Romans. You were supposed to move on to women, though, but they were not thought to be as half as interesting or esthetically pleasing as a beautiful young man.

 

[Margrethe II]

I'm sure that's common knowledge, but homosexuality was quite an accepted way of life in Ancient Greece, even before the Romans. You were supposed to move on to women, though, but they were not thought to be as half as interesting or esthetically pleasing as a beautiful young man.

Ancient Greece, thats the one. Dont know why I said Romans before Greeks. My bad?

Move onto women? yeah right.lol. Never! I dont recall ever hearing how they were "supposed" to move onto women. One makes it sound like moving from an entrée to the main.

"MII"

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

For those with an interest, it was actually Noel Coward who coined the phrase gay in the following verse;

Pretty boys, witty boys,
You may sneer
At our disintegration.
Haughty boys, naughty boys,
Dear, dear, dear!
Swooning with affectation...
And as we are the reason
For the "Nineties" being gay,
We all wear a green carnation

And of course the green carnation refers to Oscar Wilde who always wore one. Amongst those Royals listed as being gay are Julius Caesar, Edward II, Louis XIII of France, Queen Mary II, Richard the Lionheart, Umberto II of Italy and Lord Frederick Windsor who apparantly has now come out and indeed, on his Wikipedia Entry is posing on the front of a gay mag in a very very camp manner indeed. Interestingly Hans Christian Andersen was also gay.​

 

[Margrethe II]

Go Frrredddy!!!!

And one mus'nt forget Alexander the Great.

And although not royal, Leonardo Da Vinci and Michaelangelo who were both arrested for having intimate relations with other younger men.

And most milliners and world renowned fashion designers!

Love us or hate us, we are good and here to stay.lol.

"MII"

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

Unsubstantiated gossip post

With a mother like Princess Michael and a grandfather like Prince George, I'm not suprised that Freddie is gay. It makes me believe one 100% in the gay gene.

*And I'm not saying Princess Michael is a lesbian, just that she's exceptionally camp and the perfect mother for a gay guy

 

[Margrethe II]

With a mother like Princess Michael and a grandfather like Prince George, I'm not suprised that Freddie is gay. It makes me believe one 100% in the gay gene.

*And I'm not saying Princess Michael is a lesbian, just that she's exceptionally camp and the perfect mother for a gay guy

Here Here "B", I adore the Princess Michael of Kent! She is an inspiration to moi. A mother who would lend her mink I believe.

I also am a firm believer in the gay gene.

"MII"

 

[Smilla]

Ancient Greece, thats the one. Dont know why I said Romans before Greeks. My bad?

Move onto women? yeah right.lol. Never! I dont recall ever hearing how they were "supposed" to move onto women. One makes it sound like moving from an entrée to the main.

"MII"

Sorry. Must be my English! But it could work as a metaphor: I suppose the boys were regarded like an entree to Real Life - as entrees are so often, delicious, luxurious, and beautiful to look up. And then you had to get married to a women to have some kids and create the next generation of Polis citizens - which you could compare to, let's say, sheperd's pie - nourishing, yes, substantial, yes, but awfully boring, especially if compared to those delicious entrees. Hmmmm - and what's for dessert?