LHBTQ+ Royalty

[Meraude]

As for the ruler of Oman, a six month marriage is unlikely to have resulted in offspring and the divorce was supposedly welcomed by both parties. This, and the fact that the Sultan never remarried, even though under Islam that would have been no problem (just as he is entitled to have up to four wives simultaneously), and if there had been the will, there would have been offspring.

While this is circumstantial and speculative at best (as is the entire thread), there is sufficient anecdotal press around the world to allow people to conclude that he may in fact be gay.

When speculating if a person is heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, people who are sexuals always seems to forget that there is an X outside the 0 to 6 on the Kinsley scale, which stands for those for who have a low or absent interest in sexual activity, asexuals.

 

[NotHRH]

Don't know if these royals were mentioned already - HSH Prince Pierre of Monaco, Count of Polignac, HSH Prince Rainier's father; HRH Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark (HRH The Duke of Edinburgh's father). There was also much talk about the DoE's uncle, Lord Louis Mountbatten of Burma (ne HSH Prince Louis of Battenburg). Ironically, all 3 men were said to have ran with the same circle of friends, especially Pierre and Andrew. I have read also that the Earl Mountbatten's wife, née Edwina Ashley, was a known lesbian. Anyone know if the rumors about both the Duke and Duchess of Windsor being homosexual had any underlying truths to them?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

King Willem II of the Netherlands, despite being married with Anna Paulovna Romanova, Grand Duchess of Russia and having fathered 5 children, had homosexual affairs and was also blackmailed by his lovers for this. Re-calculated to today's Euros, the King had to pay several hundred-thousands of Euros to alleged "lovers" whom simply turned out to be shrewd money-hungry "friends". As homosexuality was an absolute taboo, the King of course was in a very vulnerable position.

Last year three thick biographies were published on the Kings Willem I, Willem II and Willem III. The biographer on King Willem II, Jeroen van Zanten, was given access to the private correspondence in the Royal House Archives in The Hague and discovered the many letters in which the King was blackmailed.

When his son King Willem III assumed the throne, without any pardon he stopped all payments to the alleged lovers. He calculated that his father, the late King, of course broke a taboo with having affairs with men but that these -still living men- on their turn were vulnerable too because also they had to deal with the same taboo which could ruin their social position. The most shrewd parasite of the King was a certain Petrus Janssen, a handsome German adventurer and shady figure with links to the criminal world. King Willem II, every inch a military, seems to have had a desire for male/masculine bonds, friendships and understanding. Captured in his golden cage, with Grand-Duchesses here and Princesses there, he longed for his simple bed in a military tent somewhere on the campagne. It is not clear if the King was really homosexual or simply went furtherer than was "appropriate" for a man of his standing and position.

 

[Prince Alba]

I wish one would come out

 

[NotHRH]

I wish one would come out

Care to elaborate?

 

[Prince Alba]

Care to elaborate?

I wish a royal would publicly reveal they are gay

 

[Beaverhausen]

I'm glad I finally got around to reading through this thread.

As an openly gay male I would love to see some openly gay British Royalty but deep down I also realise that the chances of that ever happening are the same as me suddenly waking up in the morrow a strapping six footer.

Also I would think it would a nightmare for any openly gay British Royal simply due to how the British press conduct themselves...ie very badly. It seems that should any male royal remain single beyond the age of 30 the rumours start "is he or isn't he gay".

I can remember reading in some newspaper/gossip mag many years ago, that very same thing being said about Prince Michael of Kent with "well considering how his father was would it be surprising if he was the same" tagged onto it all because his father Prince George was promiscuous with both sexes. His son Freddie was also labelled as being gay because he worked with and posed for a gay mag, which we now know to be wrong, if anything Lord Frederick Windsor is bisexual.

So personally while I'd adore seeing more openly gay royalty, I can totally understand why we don't due to how the press and the general public may react.

Agreed. As a gay man myself, I must confess more than a passing interest in some of the then-unmarried male royals from around the UK and Europe. From Felipe of Spain to Carl Philip of Sweden to Guillaume of Luxembourg. They all proved me wrong! I do fear for the first gay royal to "come out" in the UK, where the press is relentless.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

King Edward II of England married Isabella of France. It was a dynastic marriage, meant to ally England with France.
But for Isabella a homosexual husband was not part of the deal. She saw Gaveston wearing rings and jewels that her father had given Edward as wedding presents.

 

[Denville]

All royal marriages were dynastic ones..

 

[Countessmeout]

King Edward II of England married Isabella of France. It was a dynastic marriage, meant to ally England with France.
But for Isabella a homosexual husband was not part of the deal. She saw Gaveston wearing rings and jewels that her father had given Edward as wedding presents.

Except for men like Henry viii, marriages back then were dynastic.

Isabella actually had no problem with Gaveston. On the contrary, she got along well enough with him, and worked with him. In the early days of her marriage, her and Edward got along well enough. Contrary to braveheart (Isabella was not even in England yet when Wallace died) her and Edward had four children together. It was his later affair with Hugh dispenser, which drove the final wedge. Isabella would later go to France on a so called diplomatic mission and start an affair with her eventual accomplice Rodger Mortimer. Hugh was referred to as the sodomite by Isabella, and when she seized the throne, he was drawn and quartered.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

At the feast that followed the King's coronation in 1308, Gaveston sat next to Edward II in the place Queen Isabella should have occupied.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Lord Ivar Mountbatten came out as gay and revealed that he was in a relationship with Mr James Coyle, an airline cabin services director whom he met whilst at a ski resort in Verbier, Switzerland.

Queen's cousin Lord Ivar Mountbatten has spoken of his decision to come out as gay after finding love

In 1994 Lord Ivar Mountbatten married to Penelope Anne Vere Thompson. They divorced in 2011. The couple got three daughters: Ella (godchild of the Earl of Wessex), Alexandra (godchild of the Countess of Wessex) and Louise (godchild of Princess Xenia von Hohenlohe-Langenburg).

Lord Ivar is quite related to diverse royal Houses:

Parents:
David Mountbatten, 3rd Marquess of Milford Haven (1919-1970)
Janet Mercedes Bryce (1937)

Paternal grandparents:
George Mountbatten, 2nd Marquess of Milford Haven (1892-1938)
Nadejda Mikhailovna Romanova, cr. Countess de Torby (1896-1963)

Paternal great-grandparents:
Prince Ludwig von Hessen-Darmstadt, cr. Prince von Battenberg, 1st Marquess of Milford Haven (1954-1921)
Princess Viktoria von Hessen-Darmstadt (1863-1950)
Mikhail Mikhailovich Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia (1862-1929)
Sophie of Nassau, cr. Countess von Merenberg, cr. Countess de Torby (1838-1927)

Paternal great-great-grandparents:
Prince Alexander von Hessen-Darmstadt (1823–1888)
Countess Julia Hauke (1825–1895)
Ludwig IV, Grand-Duke of Hessen-Darmstadt (1837-1892)
Princess Alice of Great-Britain and Ireland (1843-1878)
Mikhail Nikolaevich Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia (1832-1909)
Cäcilie Auguste, Princess and Margravine of Baden (1839-1891)
Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm of Nassau (1832-1905)
Natalja Aleksandrovna Pushkina, cr. Countess von Merenberg (1832-1905)

 

[Iluvbertie]

His father was Philip's best man when he married The Queen in 1947. They left from their mutual grandmother's apartment at KP.

 

[Dee Anna]

Quite a close connection with the RF. Apparently one of Edward's best friends, he and Sophie are both godparents and I think I saw somehwere that Lord Ivar is also a godparent to either Louise or James?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Ivar's great-grandfather was Prince Louis of Battenburg, who in 1917 became the 1st Viscount of Milford-Haven. This Louis had four children - Alice (Philip's mother), George - 2nd Viscount Milford-Haven and Ivar's grandfather, Louise who became Queen of Sweden and Louis - the famous Lord Louis Mountbatten (Uncle Dickie).

This is Philip's side of the family through his mother.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

He is related to Battenbergs (Mountbatten), of course. To the Romanovs via his grandmother. To the Hessens and the Nassaus via his great-grandmothers. Not to mention the many sidelines (cousins, aunts, uncles).

 

[Skippyboo]

Ivar's great-grandfather was Prince Louis of Battenburg, who in 1917 became the 1st Viscount of Milford-Haven. This Louis had four children - Alice (Philip's mother), George - 2nd Viscount Milford-Haven and Ivar's grandfather, Louise who became Queen of Sweden and Louis - the famous Lord Louis Mountbatten (Uncle Dickie).

This is Philip's side of the family through his mother.

Isn't the Milford Haven Title a Marquess instead of a Viscount? It was part of the 1917 losing the German names new title creation.

Ivar's dad was Philip's first cousin, served with him in the Royal Navy and best man at Philip's wedding to the Queen. Ivar is a year older than Edward and is Louise's godfather.


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[Iluvbertie]

Correct it is a Marquess. Not thinking straight today. Have just received the news of a death of a dear friend - 15 months after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She fought the good fight but past away yesterday so I am not thinking straight.

 

[Skippyboo]

Sorry about your friend. Lost my mom to breast cancer 10 years ago. Still hurts and miss her.


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[Denville]

Correct it is a Marquess. Not thinking straight today. Have just received the news of a death of a dear friend - 15 months after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She fought the good fight but past away yesterday so I am not thinking straight.

sorry to hear that.

 

[Osipi]

Correct it is a Marquess. Not thinking straight today. Have just received the news of a death of a dear friend - 15 months after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She fought the good fight but past away yesterday so I am not thinking straight.

Lost my mother to lung cancer and I miss her but I've never been able to say goodbye. For me, its only until we meet again. A dear friend is never totally gone but always with us in our hearts.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Regarding the two older examples cited on this page Edward II and James VI & I: what you need to keep in mind is that the view of sexuality in the Middle Ages and the early modern period was very different to our own and indeed to each over. It's fine to talk about the modern royals metioned on this thread (modern being the nineteenth century onwards) as being gay/straight/bi etc... but that's a product of the enlightenment and anything prior to that time period was very different to our own, and even then that's to ignore situational sexuality (that's what the boarding school and army/navy jibes are about - although with the rise of co-ed education and women serving in the military....)

The first thing is that regarding sexual activity in history the only concrete way of knowing that somone engaged in sexual activity is if she becomes pregnant.# Everything else is open to conjecture and interpretion and this unsurprisingly makes determining homosexual activity all the more tricky as there is also the issue of social taboos, both contempary and of later historians, as well as notions of what actually constuites sexual intercourse. It's a much tricker topic than what it looks like on the surface.

For example in the Middle Ages the main sexual divide was between the celibate and the non-celibate - all other sexual acts, which were phallocentric due to the fact that what constituted "sex" was based on what a mostly male clergy thought, were equally sinful and those for having children was seen as a necessary evil - in other words one of the side effects was that there was no conception of female homosexuality in this time period and the oddity of somthing like feliatio being regarded as a form of sodomy* but cunnilingus was not due to it not involving penile penetration. However this was also the great age of courtly love and chivalrous botherhood as well so make of that what you will. Regarding Edward, the sodomy allegations (its not accurate to talk about him as being 'gay' in this time period) were really more about the fact that his favorites hogged his patronage and blocked out other great magnates of the realm who Edward depended on to help him run the country, from offering him their council and guidance. It also alienated Isabella as these men, Hugh Despencer in particular, were a threat to her status and wealth - that's what angered her more not the sex.

Kathryn Warner has a blog about Edward and has written biographies of him and Isabella which goes into this in more detail: Edward II. There are also a number of lectures on YouTube about sexuality in the Middle Ages in Europe - they're actually about sexuality in Game of Thrones but they go into detail about the RL Middle Ages and are well worth listening to for more information.

By James's time period attitudes were beginning to shift more toward what we might recognize in our own time period due to a shift away from the emphasis on celibacy - a byproduct of the population decrease caused by the Black Death, the questions raised by the reformation, and the development of an alternative discourse on sexuality based on classical learning - to what we would now recognize as the homo/heterosexual divide, it's no coincidence that this was the time period when men finally began to figure out how women could have sex with one another as well. In James's case there was also the fact that his sexuality was seen as linked to his foreign policy choices, James was somthing rare for the time period in that he was a pacifist in principle and fact, when warfare was seen as the correct occupation of kings and gentlemen, and was pursuing what a large number viewed as a policy of appeasement against the catholic powers. The fact that James seems to have prefers these pretty-boys to his wife and natural children was also a problem to many of his contemporaries as it looked like he was mocking marriage and the family unit - when you consider that James's political thinking was based on this kind of familial metaphor, it just looked like the worst kind of hypocracy imgainable. However that said James wasn't as "out" as he's often made out being and did try and keep things on the sly as much as was possible.

The literature on the subject of LGBT in the early modern period and James's importance to it is vast and there are too many books and articles to mention here but Michael B Young's James I and the History of Homosexuality has a comprehensive look at James's sexuality and it's impact on both the politics of the time and posterity. It does go into detail and can be quite explicit so its not a easy or comfortable read as it discusses child sex abuse allegations with James as both victim and perpetrator - in short Trigger Warning: Sexual Abuse and Pederasty. David Bergeron and Roger Lockyer (a biographer of one of the more important favorites and James himself) are also good as well.

What's intersting is the interplay not only of biology and society, but also how its been viewed and reinterpreted over time.

* Sodomy has meant a variety of things over time and wasn't always a derogatory synonym for male homosexual behavior. It actually had a meaning closer to perverted rather than queer.

# The exception to this rule being the conception of Our Lord and Saviour obviously .

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

^^^2 Long Didn't read

The problem with children from same-gender couples is that a third person is needed for the conception. In a country as the Netherlands an Act of Parliament is needed (Act of Consent). This Act says that Parliament approves the royal marriage of X with Y and that possible fruit of the union between X and Y are legitimate successors to the throne.

When Prince X marries a Mr Y but ask a Ms Z to bear his child, then both Ms Z and their child are outside this legal bond and per definition the child is no "fruit of the marriage between Prince X and Mr Y".

When Princess A marries a Ms B but ask a Mr C to create their child, then Mr C and their child are outside this legal bond and per definition the child is no "fruit of the marriage between Princess A and Ms B".

So the equal gender marriage on itself will not be the biggest problem. Possible offspring from that marriage, which will always require a ménage-à-trois, no matter it is done in a laboratory, always will be a problem.

You bring up a good point, one most people don't want to acknowledge because it brings up legitimate questions.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There were many rumours of Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II's sexuality and among his many lovers were said to have included Radu III, Prince of Wallachia and Jacob Notaras who was the nephew of the last Byzantine Emperor.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

King Willem II of the Netherlands, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg, was once engaged to The Princess Charlotte of Wales and finally married Anna Pavlovna Romanova, Grand-Princess of Russia. But an official autobiography, with full access to the private family archives of the Dutch Royal House learned that the King had friends when on campaign (as Prince of Orange he was a renowned military commander) and later in his life. In the Royal House Archives letters were found to scandalise Willem and all his life long he had to pay vast sums to silence blackmailers.

 

[Countessmeout]

There were many rumours of Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II's sexuality and among his many lovers were said to have included Radu III, Prince of Wallachia and Jacob Notaras who was the nephew of the last Byzantine Emperor.

Jacob was not a nephew of the emperor. His father Loukos was high up in the emperor's court but not related. His father did arrange when Constantine married his second wife Caterina, for the marriage of Jacob's sister Helena to Caterina's cousin Giorgio. Caterina's father was the Lord of Lesbos Dorino I. Giorgio was the son of Dorino's younger brother. Giorgio's grandmother little is known of but she is believed to have been a maternal niece of Emperor Manuel. This would become important later as Helen used her husband's power and money to ransom her sisters.

Both Jacob and Radu's relationship with the sultan stemmed from their same fate as children. Jacob and Radu were both royal hostages. Jacob's father and brothers were executed after the fall of Constantinople (mother died in slavery and Helena ransomed her two sisters). Jacob spent years in the royal harem as a page but believed to be catemite to the sultan, before he escaped to Italy. Radu and his brother Vlad III were sent as hostages when Vlad II sought aid from the Ottomans in retaking his throne. Radu remained in the Ottoman empire when his brother returned home to take the throne.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I've just realised that Radu III the who was known as Radu the Handsome/Beautiful was the brother of Vlad the Impaler

 

[Muhler]

I've just realised that Radu III the who was known as Radu the Handsome/Beautiful was the brother of Vlad the Impaler

And he sure lived a most interesting life!
Surrounded by even more "interesting" persons!
Worth a TV-series.

It is, I understand, an open question as to how gay he really was. You may have to do things to survive that may not seem natural to you - at least not initially. Especially if you were a young pretty boy/young man back then.
It has, as you probably know, been suggested that Vlad himself was abused sexually while he was "guest" at the sultan's court. Something that to me sounds very plausible, as he would have been pretty vulnerable.

 

[An Ard Ri]

And he sure lived a most interesting life!
Surrounded by even more "interesting" persons!
Worth a TV-series.

HBO might be taking note

 

[CyrilVladisla]

King Charles I of Wurttemberg reigned from 1864 to 1891. The American Charles Woodcock became the favorite of the King.