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  #61  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:43 PM
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In the Netherlands, if anyone would talk about 'Willem van Oranje' (William of Orange) everyone would no that it is about THIS Willem van Oranje and not one of his many descendants that shared his name.
Thank for that information. Clearly a hugely important figure not just in Dutch but European history. There is of course a lot of crossover with English history at the time.
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2020, 04:59 PM
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Indeed he was. Since I moved to Brussels I am quite surprised to see a lot of references to him here. I live next to a 'Rue du Taciturne' and in the garden in front of Egmont palace there is a statue of him. His companions Egmont and Horne are the central statue in the garden, as they should be as they were murdered here on the Grand Place. There is an Avenue Prince d'Orange in the Quartier Prince d'Orange in Uccle, but as it is in the direction of Waterloo I suppose it must be referring to the later king William II.
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2020, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think that Willem of Nassau, Prince of Orange was the Pater Patriæ indeed but not the founder of the Orange dynasty in the Netherlands. That honour goes to Engelbrecht I von Nassau-Dillenburg, who married the 11 years old (!) Jehenne de Polanen in 1403, heiress to a dazzling fortune. This marriage would make this German noble family amongst the wealthiest and most powerful nobles in the Low Countries.

1403 Engelbrecht I von Nassau-Dillenburg married Jehenne de Polanen, Lady of Breda
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1442 Johan IV van Nassau-Breda
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1475 Johan V van Nassau-Breda
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1515 Hendrik III van Nassau-Breda married Claude de Chalon, princesse d'Orange
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1530 René van Nassau-Breda, prince d'Orange
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1544 Willem I van Nassau-Dillenburg , prince d'Orange
I was mainly taking about how he was perceived. In the Netherlands, he is seen as the 'founding father'. The latin term of Pater Patriæ is indeed a nice translation of Vader des Vaderlands.
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  #64  
Old 04-22-2020, 03:06 AM
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I was mainly taking about how he was perceived. In the Netherlands, he is seen as the 'founding father'. The latin term of Pater Patriæ is indeed a nice translation of Vader des Vaderlands.

Yes Willem I absolutelty is the founding father of today's independent Netherlands.
But the Nassau dynasty already had a prominent position in the Low Countries since 1403. Their wealth and prestige is illustrated by the amazingly beautiful Nassau chapel in Breda ( see picture ).


So I do not consider Willem I as the founding father of the Nassaus in the Netherlands, he was essentially a simple German count who became important and wealthy by sheer luck: thanks to the unexpected death of his childless cousin René of Nassau, Prince of Orange, he inherited his wealth, his estates, fiefs and lordships in the Low Countries, in France, in Germany.
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  #65  
Old 04-22-2020, 03:18 AM
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I think he was a fascinating character. He had the favour of the Habsburgs, and a lot of people would have stuck with them, rather than risking everything by fighting against them. We learn about this mainly from the viewpoint of Elizabeth I's intervention in the war, but William the Silent is admired here.
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  #66  
Old 04-22-2020, 05:59 AM
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I think he was a fascinating character. He had the favour of the Habsburgs, and a lot of people would have stuck with them, rather than risking everything by fighting against them. We learn about this mainly from the viewpoint of Elizabeth I's intervention in the war, but William the Silent is admired here.
Willem was the favourite of Charles V, Emperor of Austra, King of Spain, Lord of the Netherlands, and of half the world. He was his Stadtholder in the Low Countries, his most wealthy realm. He was made Knight in the Golden Fleece and it was him on whom the old Emperor sought support, walking to the dais for his Abdication. The Prince of Orange stood next to Charles V. His son Philip II at the other side, so is described in records of the Abdication. See picture.

Therefore the harder the blow for Philip II, when the three most prestigious nobles, all three Knights in the Golden Fleece, Willem of Orange, Lamoral d'Egmont and Philippe de Montmorency took the lead in the rebellion against Habsburg rule. Philip II wanted to behead them. He did succeed for Egmont and Montmorency. Later Willem of Orange was assassinated by a bounty hunter, hired by Philip II.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:10 AM
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His assassin Balthasar Gérard really met a gruesome end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltha..._and_execution
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