Succession rules

[fortimo]

After I saw a video about Haakon Bungee jumping from Victoria fall, I think about what is when it goes bad and he died... I remember to read that in Holland would Maxima regent for Amalia. Do anybody know what is the rule in Norway? Can you imagine that Mette-Marit would say "no" to the throne for IA and would prefer a normal, not royal life with the children? And what would happen in this case? The family Behn is the next? Or the children of Harald's sister? Or again a foreign aristocrat like in 1905?

[Spheno]

At present, the line of succession is as follows:

1. His Royal Highness Crown Prince Haakon
2. Her Royal Highness Princess Ingrid Alexandra
3. His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus
4. Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise
5. Miss Maud Angelica Behn
6. Miss Leah Isadora Behn
7. Miss Emma Tallulah Behn

kongehuset.no - Order of succession

[Lumutqueen]

When Haakon becomes King, I imagine like with WA, a regent will be appointed for Ingrid. Personally I can't see it being MM.

[fortimo]

Thanks for the info.
Can Mette-Marit -as the mother of IA and Sverre- say "no" for the succession line, or about this case she couldn't decide?
When ML married Ari Behn didn't she give up her title? It doesn't mean that she said no for the thron? Is this not the same?
I remember when Haakon had trouble with Mette-Marit Tjessem Hoiby, he asked ML to take his role and to be crownprincess, but she said no. Do you think that she would make it if something happen with the CP-family?
So in the worst future can be one of the Behn-girl the next Queen of Norway?

I have the feeling by this family, that after Haakon is not sure the succession. They are a very lovely, downtoearth family, but it seems to me they are not really interested to keep the monarchy.

[fortimo]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

When Haakon becomes King, I imagine like with WA, a regent will be appointed for Ingrid. Personally I can't see it being MM.

Yes, but than who? I can't imagine ML. Maybe Sonja or the sister of Harald? It is difficult because in Norway doesn't exist aristocracy. And I can't imagine that MM let somebody else to regent for IA, we know that she is a very strong personality.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by fortimo

Thanks for the info.
Can Mette-Marit -as the mother of IA and Sverre- say "no" for the succession line, or about this case she couldn't decide?

Yes she can say no, she's not in the line of succesion. A law would have to be created for her to be appointed regent if Haakon died and IA was still underage. Same as in the case of Maxima.

Originally Posted by fortimo

When ML married Ari Behn didn't she give up her title? It doesn't mean that she said no for the thron? Is this not the same?

She didn't give up her title it was altered for Her Royal Highness to Her Highness so she would be able to lead a normalish life with her husband and children. She is still in line for succesion, she is currently fourth, and performs duties on behalf of her father occasionally.

Originally Posted by fortimo

I remember when Haakon had trouble with Mette-Marit Tjessem Hoiby, he asked ML to take his role as crownprincess, but she said no. Do you think that she would make it if something happen with the CP-family?
So in the worst future can be one of the Behn-girl the next Queen of Norway?

I've never heard that ML was asked to be Crown Princess when Haakon asked for MM's hand in marriage. For ML to be Queen, Haakon, IA and Sverre would have to pass away. For a Behn girl to be Queen, you would have to add ML to the list.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by fortimo

Thanks for the info.
Can Mette-Marit -as the mother of IA and Sverre- say "no" for the succession line, or about this case she couldn't decide? .

Do you mean: can MM take her children out of the line of succession (being their mother)?
I'm not completely sure but i don't think she can... she is not the one who decides who is in line and who isn't...(even if she would be made regent, she couldn't decide this)

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

Do you mean: can MM take her children out of the line of succession (being their mother)?
I'm not completely sure but i don't think she can... she is not the one who decides who is in line and who isn't...(even if she would be made regent, she couldn't decide this)

I believe what fortimo means is Can MM accept to be part of the line of succesion or can she say no if she can't decide. Technically she's not part of the line of succesion, and like Maxima a law would be created for her to become regent.

[fortimo]

Thanks for both you to your answers, I meant what Lee-Z wrote, that MM can take her children out of the line of succession, as their mother... But what Lumutqueen wrote it is also interesting, do we know what will be her title when Haakon become King? She will be also Queen as Maxima in Holland?

Do you think when she was married to Haakon, she was informed about these possibilities? What can she do, what not? Maybe one marriage contract involve these?

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by fortimo

Thanks for both you to your answers, I meant what Lee-Z wrote, that MM can take her children out of the line of succession, as her mother... But what Lumutqueen wrote it is also interesting, do we know what will be her title when Haakon become King? She will be also Queen as Maxima in Holland?

Do you think when she was married to Haakon, she was informed about these possibilities? What can she do, what not? Maybe one marriage contract involve these?

To take the two next in line to the thrones out of said line of succesion, would be illogical at best and would no doubt receive an outcry from the public and Martha Louise who would then be Queen.

Mette Marit, logically, will be Queen Mette Marit when Haakon ascends the throne.

When she married Haakon she knew she would one day be Queen unless something drastic happened, the way it worked would have all been explained to her and how things happen when Harald dies or abdicates. I'm not sure what you mean by "can and can't do", in regards to her children very little, yes she's their mother but Ingrid Alexandra will be Queen and Sverre will be her heir until she has a child of her own. Similarly in the case of a divorce, MM would not get the children they would stay in Norway under joint or single custody of their father. It's the same with most european royal marriages.

If she had a pre-nup agreement or something similar this all would have been allowed.

I'm not sure if the Norwegian royals have a travel policy like the British RF and Danish royals have, the heir and the next heir cannot travel via air together, but this would be a logical thing to have.

[fortimo]

Thanks for the answer. Yes, I meant with the "can do or can not" the decision-making rights over her children. If Haakon lives, it is understandable that he would have the right over her children, but I was not sure what is when he dies. In this case what can she do and what can't, and these possibilities are for her said or even fixed in a marriage or other contract.

I remember when the whole family (King, Queen, CP family and Behn family) travelled some years ago to the Caribbien with one plane, than was also a discussion what happens, when the plane falls down... (I meant also this case, when I wrote they take their role not really seriously...)

[vestfoldlilja]

If something happened to the Crown Prince before the King dies, the King would of course remain the regent.

I don’t believe the Crown Princess can be regent in the place of her daughter, as she is not in line of succession. It would be Princess Martha Louise who would be regent in Princess Ingrid Alexandra’s place. I can’t imagine anything different. And no the Crown Princess has no rights to say no to throne and a royal life on her daughters behalf. Only the regent can write people in and out of the line of succession. And only the regent can decide what titles to give. And I can’t imagine a law would be passed allowing the Crown Princess to act as regent.

Princess Martha Louise was never asked to take her brothers place in the line of succession. She has said that during that time when the press was at the worst she of course thought through every possibility, and the Crown Prince has said he thought about what would happen if he let go of the throne, but it was never discussed at court as a real possibility. The Crown Prince and Crown Princess had the support from the King and Queen from the start, and very shortly after from the Prime minister and government as well.

And in regards to the bungee jumping, one of the people in the police escort jumped before the Crown Prince was allowed to, so his security is taken into account in everything he does.

I don’t agree that the family seems disinterested in the throne and a royal life. The documentary about the Crown Prince shown earlier this year showed very well how seriously he takes his role, and that he strives to do the best job he can and to be an asset to Norway. I believe they also do a very good job preparing Princess Ingrid Alexandra for the role she will most likely have when she grows older.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by vestfoldlilja

If something happened to the Crown Prince before the King dies, the King would of course remain the regent.

I don’t believe the Crown Princess can be regent in the place of her daughter, as she is not in line of succession. It would be Princess Martha Louise who would be regent in Princess Ingrid Alexandra’s place. I can’t imagine anything different. And no the Crown Princess has no rights to say no to throne and a royal life on her daughters behalf. Only the regent can write people in and out of the line of succession. And only the regent can decide what titles to give. And I can’t imagine a law would be passed allowing the Crown Princess to act as regent. .

However, if Haakon is King and Mette Marit is Queen and Harald is dead, the case logically would follow suit of the Dutch RF and Mette Marit would act as regent for her daughter hypothetically. There's no one else, I personally don't see ML giving up her plush life for duty.

[vestfoldlilja]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

However, if Haakon is King and Mette Marit is Queen and Harald is dead, the case logically would follow suit of the Dutch RF and Mette Marit would act as regent for her daughter hypothetically. There's no one else, I personally don't see ML giving up her plush life for duty.

I don’t think so. I’m not sure a Queen consort have that right, or would be given that right beforehand.

If I picture a real situation where Kings Harald is dead, and Haakon either dies as King or died as Crown Prince before Ingrid Alexandra is 18, I think it would fall upon Princess Martha Louise to rule. She is the one next in line to the throne after Sverre who obviously just as Ingrid would be too young to ascend any thrones. Mind you I don’t know if there are any laws regarding this, besides those pertaining to the line of succession. As Mette-Marit is not in the line of succession to the Norwegian throne I don’t foresee her ever being given rights as regent.

[Lumutqueen]

Maxima was never in line to the Dutch Throne but she was named regent over her mother in law who is still alive. Succesion is Succesion, and whilst personally I don't think Mette Marit should act as regent, it's the logical choice. Martha Louise seems so out of the royal picture to plunge her in so deep would be silly.

[cepe]

Firstly - is there nothing in the constitution?

Secondly - although a Regent could be named, ie MM, this is a constitutional monarchy and therefore limited in it's legal responsibilities. My assumption would be that a Regnal council could be formed where any necessary decisions would be made. This could include Regent (ie MM) and/or legal guardian of I-A; I-A (she needs to know what is happening although this would depend on her age at the time); ML (hereditary RF input); and legal guidance. However, this immediately leads me back to the constitution question - is this legally possible?

EDIT: MM would be I-A's legal guardian if she is a minor

[vestfoldlilja]

I still disagree, and I don’t see it as logical that Mette-Marit would act as regent at all. Only Princess Martha seems logical to me. I suggest we agree to disagree :)

I know Queen Maxima was named to act as regent in her daughter’s case, but I just don’t see something like that happening in Norway.

[vestfoldlilja]

Originally Posted by cepe

Firstly - is there nothing in the constitution?

Secondly - although a Regent could be named, ie MM, this is a constitutional monarchy and therefore limited in it's legal responsibilities. My assumption would be that a Regnal council could be formed where any necessary decisions would be made. This could include Regent (ie MM) and/or legal guardian of I-A; I-A (she needs to know what is happening although this would depend on her age at the time); ML (hereditary RF input); and legal guidance. However, this immediately leads me back to the constitution question - is this legally possible?

EDIT: MM would be I-A's legal guardian if she is a minor

As I read article 6 of the Norwegian constitution I don't think so.

It can be read here along with a list everyone who is in the line of succestion:

The Royal House of Norway - Order of succession

I understand it as the only legal regent in such a case as we discuss would be Princess Martha Louice.

[cepe]

The Law of Succession does not necessarily reflect what would happen if both Harald and Haakon died before I-A gained her majority (which I assume is 18 - can someone advise?).

Legally MM is I-A's guardian until she is 18; with guidance on royal matters, she is also a logical person to be Regent. I think this is why Maxima is Regent in the Netherlands, as well as her history as being a "sound" Princess and her position as Queen.

MM's position is difficult in that we are considering a situation where she would not be Queen of Norway when her husband dies.

I think that when Haakon becomes King, the possible regency situation will be clarified, as per the Netherlands. The same will happen if Haakon pre-desceases his father. Both the NRF and the Government will want to clarify the situation.

[MARG]

Absolutely. I think the Netherlands response to Princess Beatrix abdication by making Maxima a Regent is very practical and wonder if the same would happen with MM.

It seems absurd that a child's mother would have to share her parenting "duties" with a Regent. Being a minor with a Regent is a big deal for any child as that means their father would be dead. To have her mother pushed to one side for all of the important decisions in her life would create divided loyalty in her life, separate her from her siblings and possibly create instability for the sucession.

That being said, it seems that so many CP's like to indulge in a little adrenaline rush. Skiing of piste, diving, jumping out of perfectly serviceable aircraft, etc. Perhaps they consider it a rite of passage, knowing they have to be a little more circumspect upon their ascension.