Succession rules

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Why isn't the king's sister Princess Astrid in the line of succession to the throne?

Because until 1971 women were excluded; both Harald's older sisters married before the changes came into effect and were never included in the line of succession. In 1990 absolute primogeniture was introduced for those born after that date.

The final paragraph on kongehuset.no on the order of succession refers to these rules.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Because until 1971 women were excluded; both Harald's older sisters married before the changes came into effect and were never included in the line of succession. In 1990 absolute primogeniture was introduced for those born after that date.

The final paragraph on kongehuset.no on the order of succession refers to these rules.

Women and girls remained excluded until 1990. There was an interesting recent interview with Princess Märtha Louise in which she recalled being probed for her thoughts about the opportunity to become queen as a 15-year-old, when the changes were being considered.

https://www.insider.com/princess-mar...-queen-2020-12
https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2361058

In 1990, females who were born in or after 1971 (the year of Princess Märtha Louise's birth) were introduced into the line of succession to the crown. The final paragraph of Article 6 of the Constitution (see the link in Somebody's post) says:

For those born before the year 1971, Article 6 of the Constitution as it was passed on 18 November 1905 shall, however, apply. For those born before the year 1990 it shall nevertheless be the case that a male shall take precedence over a female.

While some of Princess Ragnhild and Princess Astrid's descendants were born after 1971, those descendants remain excluded by the first paragraph of Article 6:

The order of succession is lineal, so that only a child born in lawful wedlock of the Queen or King, or of one who is herself or himself entitled to the succession, may succeed, and so that the nearest line shall take precedence over the more remote and the elder in the line over the younger.

[Somebody]

Thanks for the correction.

I do recall ML talking about the option of becoming queen but misinterpreted the wording of Wikipedia (see quote below). So, the changes were applied in 1990 but included a rule (that was specifically made to apply to ML and Haakon) that for those born in the last two decades brothers would be ahead of their sisters, with the only purpose to ensure that Haakon would be ahead of his sister when ML entered the line of succession at that point...

The King's children are still ranked according to male-preference cognatic primogeniture, which was the norm between 1971 and 1990;

[Tatiana Maria]

I would say it is the Wikipedia quote which is wrong and not your interpretation of it (I would have interpreted it in the same manner). But the link you shared to the Royal House official website is quite trustworthy, as it quotes directly from the Constitution.

https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/1814-05-17

Yes, I'm sure the year 1971 was selected because it was the year of Princess Märtha Louise's birth. As a result she was the only person introduced into the succession line in 1990.

Hypothetically, if Parliament had introduced female succession at the time of Princess Märtha Louise's birth, I imagine she would have remained the heiress over her younger brother, just as with Victoria of Sweden who was born just six years later. I wonder why Parliament didn't do so in the 1970s, when other European monarchies debated introducing absolute primogeniture and it had taken five years of marriage for the Crown Prince Couple to have an heir.

[Somebody]

It is interesting, however, that the constitution assumes that those that might ascend the throne would be princes and princesses:

Article 7.
If there is no Princess or Prince entitled to the succession, the King may propose his successor to the Storting, which has the right to make the choice if the King's proposal is not accepted.

So, if for whatever reason the first 4 currently in line to the throne, would suddenly no longer be in the line of succession, there is a non-princesses who would ascend the throne but according to Article 7 the Starting might choose a different successor than the one proposed by the king (which assumes that his three granddaughters by his daughter could be skipped as they are not princesses). I am quite sure that isn't the intention but the wording and current practice are at odds with each other (just like in Sweden).

Of course, I assume that as soon as such a situation would arise, the king would use his prerogative to create at least the heir a prince or princess if he/she isn't one already - using article 34:

Article 34.
The King shall make provisions concerning titles for those who are entitled to succeed to the Crown.

Article 36 also only applies to princes and princesses entitled to succeed to the Crown of Norway, so from that perspective Maud, Leah and Emma are free to marry whoever they like without any consequences for the place in the line of succession.

Article 36.
A Prince or Princess entitled to succeed to the Crown of Norway may not marry without the consent of the King. Nor may he or she accept any other crown or government without the consent of the King and the Storting. For the consent of the Storting two thirds of the votes are required.

If he or she acts contrary to this rule, they and their descendants forfeit their right to the throne of Norway.

And suddenly in artikel 37 the term 'royal princes and princesses' is introduced. Would Märtha Louise and Sverre Magnus not qualify as they are no (longer) royal highnesses?

Article 37.
The Royal Princes and Princesses shall not personally be answerable to anyone other than the King, or whomever he decrees to sit in judgment on them.

The combination of articles 41 and 44 indicates the assumption that the (direct) heir to the throne is a prince or princess. Article 41 references 'the person next entitled to succeed' (so a general phrasing) while Article 44 refers to this same person as The prince or princess, who in the cases mentioned in article 41...

Article 41.
If the King is absent from the realm unless commanding in the field, or if he is so ill that he cannot attend to the Government, the person next entitled to succeed to the throne shall, provided that he has attained the age stipulated for the King's majority, conduct the Government as the temporary executor of the Royal Powers. If this is not the case, the Council of State will conduct the administration of the realm.

(...)

Article 44.
The Princess or Prince who, in the cases mentioned in Article 41, conducts the Government shall make the following oath in writing before the Storting: «I promise and swear that I will conduct the Government in accordance with the Constitution and the Laws, so help me God, the Almighty and Omniscient.»

If the Storting is not in session at the time, the oath shall be made in the Council of State and later be presented to the next Storting.

The Princess or Prince who has once made the oath shall not repeat it later.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Because until 1971 women were excluded; both Harald's older sisters married before the changes came into effect and were never included in the line of succession. In 1990 absolute primogeniture was introduced for those born after that date.

The final paragraph on kongehuset.no on the order of succession refers to these rules.

Had they decided to include Harald's sisters in the line of succession and place them and their children ahead of Harald, the line of succession would look very different....

(this thought came up after reading this news) - of course, I know it's not realistic... Among other reasons because the chances are very slim that they would have been able to marry the partners they ended up marrying.

In this hypothetical situation, we would have: KING HAAKON & QUEEN MARTHA

Line of succession (and partners for a view of all the members of the extended royal family)
1. Crown prince Olav (with Crown princess Ingrid)
2. Prince Christian (with Princess Mariah)
3. Princess Sophia
4. Princess Ingeborg (with Paulo César Ribeiro Filho)
5. Victoria Ribeiro (Felipe Sampaio Octaviano Falcão)
6. Frederik Falcão
7. Princess Raghnild (with Aaron Matthew Long)
8. Alexandra Long
9. Elizabeth Long
10. Princess Astrid (widow of Johan Martin Ferner)
11. Cathrine Ferner Johansen (with Arild Johansen)
12. Sebastian Johansen
13. Madeleine Johansen
14. Benedikte Ferner
15. Alexander Ferner (with Margaret Gudmundsdottir Ferner)
16. Edward Ferner
17. Stella Ferner
18. Elisabeth Ferner (with Tom Folke Beckmann)
19. Benjamin Beckmann
20. Carl-Christian Ferner (with Anna-Stina Slattum)
21. Fay Ferner
22. Fam Ferner
23. Prince Harald (with Princess Sonja)
24. Princess Märtha Louise
25. Maud Angelica Behn
26. Leah Isadora Behn
27. Emma Tallulah Behn
28. Prince Haakon Magnus (with Princess Mette Marit)
29. Princess Ingrid-Alexandra
30. Prince Sverre Magnus

Went with surnames of the fathers for the non-male line descendants following the way this was handled for ML and Ari Behn (even though in reality Raghnild's and Astrid's descendants use different (combined) surnames).

Edit: Updated based on information provided by Norwegianne (see below).

[Tatiana Maria]

In case any readers have not read the entire thread: The inclusion of females in the line of succession to the throne (Article 6) occurred for the first time in 1990, but it was applied to women and girls born in or after 1971, which is the year of Märtha Louise's birth, in order that Princess Märtha Louise (but not her aunts Ragnhild and Astrid) could enter the line of succession.

https://lovdata.no/dokument/NL/lov/1814-05-17
https://lovdata.no/dokument/NLE/lov/1814-05-17

I find it interesting that when Parliament drafted the new version of Article 6, they elected to exclude Princesses Ragnhild and Astrid on the basis of their age, when they could have excluded them for having married unequally or having been removed from the Royal House on marriage.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Had they decided to include Harald's sisters in the line of succession and place them and their children ahead of Harald, the line of succession would look very different....

(this thought came up after reading this news) - of course, I know it's not realistic... Among other reasons because the chances are very slim that they would have been able to marry the partners they ended up marrying.

In this hypothetical situation, we would have: KING HAAKON & QUEEN MARTHA

Line of succession (and partners for a view of all the members of the extended royal family)
1. Crown prince Olav (with Crown princess Ingrid)
2. Prince Christian (with Princess Mariah)
3. Princess Sophia
4. Princess Ingeborg (with Paulo César Ribeiro Filho)
5. Victoria Ribeiro (Felipe Sampaio Octaviano Falcão)
6. Frederik Falcão
7. Princess Raghnild (with Aaron Matthew Long)
8. Alexandra Long
9. Elizabeth Long
10. Princess Astrid (widow of Johan Martin Ferner)
11. Cathrine Ferner Johansen (with Arild Johansen)
12. Sebastian Johansen
13. Madeleine Johansen
14. Benedikte Ferner
15. Alexander Ferner (with Margaret Gudmundsdottir Ferner)
16. Edward Ferner
17. Stella Ferner
18. Elisabeth Ferner (with Tom Folke Beckmann)
19. Benjamin Beckmann
20. Carl-Christian Ferner (with Anna-Stina Slattum)
21. Prince Harald (with Princess Sonja)
22. Princess Märtha Louise
23. Maud Angelica Behn
24. Leah Isadora Behn
25. Emma Tallulah Behn
26. Prince Haakon Magnus (with Princess Mette Marit)
27. Princess Ingrid-Alexandra
28. Prince Sverre Magnus

Went with surnames of the fathers for the non-male line descendants following the way this was handled for ML and Ari Behn (even though in reality Raghnild's and Astrid's descendants use different (combined) surnames).

Carl-Christian Ferner have two children:

1.2.1.2.5.1.Fay Slattum Ferner (*2018)
1.2.1.2.5.2.Fam Slattum Ferner (*2021)

Descendants of King Christian IX of Denmark